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Utah's path to a 3-1 record against the Frogs

Utah wide receiver Jereme Brooks (85) looks back for New Mexico defenders as he scores a touchdown off a 69-yard Jordan Wynn pass during the first quarter of an NCAA college football game at Rice-Eccles Stadium, Saturday, Nov. 7, 2009, in Salt Lake City, Utah. Utah defeated New Mexico 45-14. (AP Photo/Colin E. Braley)

More photos » Colin E. Braley - AP

3 months ago: Utah wide receiver Jereme Brooks (85) looks back for New Mexico defenders as he scores a touchdown off a 69-yard Jordan Wynn pass during the first quarter of an NCAA college football game at Rice-Eccles Stadium, Saturday, Nov. 7, 2009, in Salt Lake City, Utah. Utah defeated New Mexico 45-14. (AP Photo/Colin E. Braley)

It's hard to compare these Frogs to TCU teams of the past because they're just so damn good. But I think there is precedence here. The Utes have done better than any Mountain West team against TCU and own a 3-1 record since their arrival in 2005. That just isn't luck. There is an obvious trend that suggests the Utes have their number.

Now does that mean much for Saturday's game? Not quite. The Frogs are capable of beating Utah. They did it in Kyle Whittingham's first season and had them on the ropes last year. But I think it also shows the Utes are capable of going toe-to-toe with them and that's what they'll need to do if they have any chance Saturday.

What better way to get an idea of what to expect this weekend than by looking at the past three meetings (all Utah victories) and comparing them to TCU's output each year. 

Star-divide

2008:

The game most remember. Utah trailed 10-0 and 10-3 at the half before rallying and winning 13-10 in the final minute. It was a loss the Frogs suggested should not have happened and you know they still aren't over it. But how did Utah manage to win that game? It wasn't just because TCU missed a couple crucial field goals deep in the Utes' territory.

For starters, let's take a look at the defensive statistics, since that has always been the Frogs' strongest point under Gary Patterson. 

Last season, TCU once again had one of the best defenses in the country. They ranked second in points given up per game at 10.9 (we'll round that up to 11). 

Looking deeper, though, the Frogs ranked second (behind USC) in yards given up at 215 per game. This is actually better than their current total - if you can believe it. 

Utah, in their win, had 275 total yards. That's pretty significant when you realize just how well TCU kept offenses in check. That 275 total yards was the most TCU gave up in all but two games (Oklahoma and BYU). This shows the Utes did just enough on offense to keep the game from turning into a total Frogs blowout (10-0 in any case against Utah that year would've been considered a blowout). 

What won the game for the Utes, however, was their defense. Last year, like this year, TCU averaged 35-points (this year it's 37, but you get the point). They also averaged 417 yards per game, which put them in the top-half of the country. They're doing a bit better this season at 458. 

In their loss to Utah, though, they were actually held just one-point below their season average. Surprising, isn't it? Of course, most those yards came in the first half - when the Frogs scored all their points and that can't be ignored. The Utes' defense struggled early, calmed down and shut TCU out for the remainder of the game. In fact, the Frogs really only rolled Utah on their first two possessions. After that, their gameplan was good enough to get them into field goal range, but hardly good enough for gimmie-points. They also failed to break the plane on their lone touchdown, though that's neither here nor there. 

On the offensive end for the Utes, they struggled compared to their season average. They did put up 37-points per game in 2008, yet only scored 13 and averaged 405-yards on the year, though only 275 against the Frogs. We knew, though, TCU's defense would control Utah's offense just enough to make the game extremely close. They did. 

It was on the defensive end where the Utes really put a dent into the Frog offense. I stated earlier they averaged 35-points per game and Utah held them only to 10. I don't expect a similar performance, but they should hold them well below their 37-point average this season. 

Beyond that, the Utes' defense gave up 17-points per game on average, which is actually worse than this year's total (16 points per game). Utah is also doing about as well as they did last season in how many yards per game they give up. In 2008, it was 296, this season it is 299 - so a three yard difference). TCU did manage 416 in their loss to Utah, but I went over their unusually high production earlier.

In last year's game, it was really a mix of offensive and defensive performance that led Utah to the victory. It's not correct to suggest they completely shut TCU down - they didn't. However, they played better all around than any team the Frogs faced outside of Oklahoma (who really poured it on them). 

What's interesting is how similar this season really is to last season's in terms of statistics. The defensive numbers aren't all that off and the offensive numbers for both teams are only slightly different. Maybe this TCU team isn't really leaps and bounds better than last year's. Though we know Utah isn't quite near the level they were in 2008 and that handicaps them a bit. It also means the Frogs don't need to be extremely better than last season to beat Utah. 

But it does tell us maybe the Utes have a better shot than originally thought. 

2007:

I think 2007 will mirror this week's game more than last year's contest. I say this not only because it's on the road, but I don't see another 13-10 decision. It won't be that low scoring. Which is an interesting position to take due to the fact Utah's offense is worse this season than last and TCU's defense is probably just as good and even then, the Utes only managed 13-points...at home. 

The Utes won that game in 2007, 27-20. It was a close contest that came down to an onside kick that was overturned due to a TCU player touching the ball before it went ten yards.

It's hard to say if the Frogs would have tied the game up had the onside kick actually worked, but it certainly would have made things interesting. Regardless, though, the Utes left Fort Worth with a huge win (their fourth straight of the season) and it really set the tone for what would come to follow (a 13-0 campaign a year later). 

I do believe this year's Utes are better than their 2007 counterparts and statistics tend to back that up. But it's also clear TCU is far better than they were that year and the statistics soundly make that point.

For the Frogs, they struggled a bit on the offensive end two years ago. They only managed 27-points per game (10-points less than this season) and scored seven points less than that average against Utah. Their total yards per game was at 388, which wasn't entirely bad, but again not near the level of this year's total. Utah held them to 285. 

Yet it was on the defensive side of the ball that really hurt TCU overall. They did manage a respectable 19-points given up per game and they only allowed 320-yards per game. But compared to this year, there is a clear distinction. I mean, allowing almost 100 less yards per game is huge. It could be the difference between multiple scores. 

Even though their defense in 2007 has a hard time living up to this year's squad, they were capable of keeping Utah's offense well below their season average in yards and they managed to do better than their season average in yards given up. The Utes only had 227 that night - 92 short of their season average. 

The interesting thing about this game is that nearly across the board, TCU played better than Utah. 

They had more total yards (227 for Utah, 285 for TCU), more first downs and fewer penalties. Where the Utes really won the game was in turnovers and time of possession. The Frogs had four turnovers to Utah's one and the Utes held onto the ball for nearly 37-minutes. TCU only had it for 23-minutes. When you're chewing up clock like that and running the ball just enough (Utah had 107 yards on the ground), you're going to be in position to win the game. 

And that's exactly what the Utes did. It wasn't a particularly pretty victory, but they managed to win and improved their record to 5-3 on the season.

2006:

Probably the most baffling of Utah's wins because this wasn't a very good Utes team and the game was shockingly not all that close. Utah steamrolled TCU 20-7 in a defensive battle that really made the difference between a disastrous second year for Whittingham and a fairly tolerable season. 

The 2006 Frogs were actually pretty good. I'd say one of the best defensive teams TCU has fielded. In fact, that defense was very similar to this year's in the sense they really knew how to shut opponents down. 

They gave up only about 13-points per game, which was fifth best in the nation that year and they ranked fourth in yards given up (249). Their offense, though, wasn't nearly as good. They were only slightly better than Utah in both points per game and yards per game. This probably leveled the playing field just a bit, because the Utes' defense had some problems. 

In 2006, they gave up 20 points and 327 total yards per game - the worst average of the Whittingham era. Utah's defense wasn't entirely bad, but it wasn't really good, either. With TCU's offense not near the level it would become the next three years, Utah did benefit from its low rate of success. 

The Frogs were held well below their season average in points and yards. TCU averaged 404-yards that season and the Utes held them only to 309. On the other side of the ball, they really pounded the Frogs' defense. It was, without question, the most dominant performance either team has had in this series in the Mountain West era. 

Utah had 354 total yards, which was the second most given up by the TCU defense that year (BYU, their other loss, managed 395). The Utes also forced four turnovers, which dictated the flow in Utah's favor even more. 

In the end, the Utes pretty much had their way with TCU. It wasn't quite the blowout the Frogs saw a week prior against the Cougars, but it was close. Which is remarkable because while on its own, the win doesn't look entirely out of place, in the context of the season, you see just how poor the Utes looked for a good portion of it. It is, in fact, a win that was sandwiched in between a 36-3 loss to Boise State and then a 31-15 loss to Wyoming. 

The bottom line is that in the last two meetings, things have been extremely close. It's come down to one or two plays, yet it seems Utah has had the advantage, even though TCU might have looked a bit better statistically. I can't explain that entirely and I won't try to because some things are better left unexplained. What I do know is that the Utes have the winning mindset against the Frogs. This much is proven with their ability to overcome losing the statistical sheet and winning the game. 

What has kept Utah in position to win every one of these games has been their defense. It was that defense in 2008 that pushed TCU back just far enough to where their two crucial field goals weren't a given. It was that defense in 2007 that forced four turnovers and preserved a huge and season-defining win on the road. 

If Utah is going to win this week, it will take a solid defensive effort and a little push on the offensive end. 

With history really backing up the Utes' chances, I think it would be very unwise to suggest they can't win this game.

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Frogs are -16

the line is TCU by 16. Ouch. I’m not sure about that, but one thing that really worries me is that TCU looks better than they were last year, and we are definitely not as good as last year. Motto for this game: “Hope for the best, but expect the worst.”

by GodisBrianJohnson on Nov 9, 2009 2:26 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

That's 1.5 lower than it opened.

It was 17.5 this morning. I’m not surprised most of the money is on Utah.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 9, 2009 2:41 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

it is 17.5 and it will get to 19 points by game day

i will take utah and 19 points. coach whittingham will use that as a sign of disrespect. espn game day there. both teams jacked up. sorry to say i still think tcu wins by two td’s. just my opinion. it is jordan wynn’s first real road test. that is a bad omen against one of the best defenses in the nation.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 9, 2009 2:55 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

No, it'll move in the other direction because all the smart money will be on Utah.

It’s already moved .5 in utah’s favor (17 right now) and will keep moving as the game gets closer. If you’re taking Utah, take them now because it will be below 14 by gameday.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 9, 2009 5:19 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

i live in lake tahoe nevada and it's 18 points here.

the most movement will happen one hour before the game. i will keep everybody informed. i guarantee you it will not get to 14 points. in nevada tcu is seen as the team with the much better defense and offense. they have covered their last three games by large margins. utah ats(against the spread) is awful this year. the gambling public in nevada only cares who covers.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 9, 2009 6:20 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Covers.com has 16.5 and 17. So we've already moved a point and are only 2.5 away from 14.

I live in Vegas, I’ll take the Vegas lines over your silly Reno ones any day ;-)

I’m just saying, line is moving towards Utah. If you want to bet Utah, do it now.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 9, 2009 9:01 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

if you live in vegas why are you looking at covers.com?

tell me the mgm grand line? reno is 45 minutes from tahoe too.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 9, 2009 9:42 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Because I'm too lazy to drive down to the strip.

But the mirage line is -17

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 10, 2009 8:48 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

that is funny. there are coast casino's, station casino's and arizona charlie's

everywhere in the local communities. i used to live in vegas. i know. btw the largest casino in reno, the silver legacy (38 stories) has a mgm grand sportsbook. what part of vegas are you from? just a vicinty. most utah fans would bet in a small town called wendover nv. it’s just a local line for that game. by game time the line will be 18 points. tcu is covering the spread much better than utah. i think utah is 3-6 ats while tcu is 6-2 ats. they played texas state, no line. tcu has covered four straight. the money will be wagered on tcu one hour before game time. i hope that helps. peace.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 10:42 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm too lazy to drive to the Red Rock or the Sun Coast (both fairly close to my house)

in order to check the lines for an online message board post. I disagree. The smart money’s already coming in on Utah to cover this giant spread, and it’ll keep moving in that direction. It may jump at the last minute because the line has moved so far down, but I’d be willing to bet it falls below 14.5 at some point this week.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 10, 2009 11:19 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, right now it looks like I'm a moron.

It’s 19 or 20 at most places right now. I’m really surprised. I know TCU beat BYU by 30, but Utah matches up so much better. I guess we’ll see on Saturday, but I am actually quite surprised the line has moved in that direction so much.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 10, 2009 4:02 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Me too.

Maybe they know something we don’t.

by JazzyUte on Nov 10, 2009 4:06 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Ever consider?

Utah fans are much more likely to travel to Nevada to make a bet than TCU fans?

Anyone got the goods on last years Vegas vs. Atlantic City odds for the Rose Bowl? I would be surprised if their was not a two point difference, with Vegas going higher for USC and Atlantic City going higher for Penn State.

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Nov 10, 2009 7:20 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't expect the worst at all.

And I don’t really think TCU looks that much better than last year. I showed the statistics that suggest they’re about even and last year, they were blowing teams out of the water prior to the Utah game. That’s why they were 2-point favorites against the Utes on the road.

The only difference was that TCU lost, on the road, to a team that played in the NC game. I don’t know if TCU could knock off Florida in the Swamp.

To better show you what I mean, their 2008 victories:

26-3 over New Mexico
67-6 over Stephen A. Austin
31-14 over Stanford
48-7 over SMU
41-7 over SDSU
13-7 over CSU
32-7 over BYU
54-7 over Wyoming
44-14 over UNLV
44-10 over Air Force

That actually looks very similar to their season this year. CSU was a similarly close game as Air Force this year. They rolled SDSU and UNLV. They beat BYU by almost the same margin.

On the other hand, Utah was struggling. A week prior to the TCU game, we barely beat a REALLY bad New Mexico team. A team TCU soundly beat early in the season when the Lobos were actually looking fairly decent (remember, they beat Arizona that year).

So, while I think they’re better…I’m not going to say they’re THAT much better.

by JazzyUte on Nov 9, 2009 2:50 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Jazzy, Utah won the 2006 game because of Louie Sakoda.

The defense played well and the offense played well enough, but Sakoda was the difference. TCU’s average starting position in that game was something like their own 19. That was due almost entirely to the punting of Louie. And that includes several kickoffs (5 in all) that were all touchbacks, if I remember correctly. If Louie doesn’t have to include those 5 (which hurt his average), then the average falls to

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 9, 2009 2:45 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree.

We flipped the field in that game and it was huge. But I wouldn’t say Sakoda won the game. It was factor in it not being close, but it wasn’t the only factor.

by JazzyUte on Nov 9, 2009 2:46 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

And TCU was without Aaron Brown or Jeff Ballard.

St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester

by BoylenOver on Nov 10, 2009 12:27 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I am cautiously optomisitc.

1) Whittingham has some of McBride’s variablitiy on performance.

While we occationally play down to a lower opponent Utah certainly plays up to the good teams. Utah will be up for this game. I am glad the swings are lower than they were under McBride, and we have gained the ability to recover from early set backs since a decade ago.

2) The pressure is on TCU

All eyes are on TCU and they know the BCS is on the line. This will free Utah to play loose and aggressive. This is always a plus.

3) Our questions on offense have answers that can’t be scouted by TCU.

A new QB who did well in his scrimmage and had the first 2/3 of the season to iron out wrinkles he still had at the start of the season is huge. And Cain is available to pick up a Louks type role.

Our new offense should see success, especially early. Expect new wrinkles we have not seen yet. Several have complained that the play calling has been bland and predictable. That will not be the case this week.

4) Our defense will be fine.

They have improved on offense but not enough to roll on us.

My call: Utah 23 TCU 21.

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Nov 9, 2009 2:56 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

I had a dream we won 24-21 on a FG as time expired.

:o

But I like your assessment of Whittingham. This season has shown me we are very unlikely to drop inexcusable games. McBride always did.

But McBride was also a great coach when not much was expected out of Utah. That’s one trait Whittingham has carried over and I’m thankful for that.

There isn’t one game I can think of where we were big underdogs and actually played extremely well or won.

2005: BYU (won that in OT, even though we were double-digit dogs after losing Johnson and Madsen).

2006: BYU (lost, but probably one of the best coached games of the Whittingham era.

2007: UCLA (won big)

2008: Alabama

2009: TCU! ;)

by JazzyUte on Nov 9, 2009 3:26 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

please don't compare mcbride to whittingham

that is a great disservice to whittingham. mcbride’s rebuilding years were 4-7 and 5-6 remember. tcu 31 utah 17. not enough to cover but enough to got the bcs.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 9, 2009 6:26 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Whittingham has some McBride in him.

He worked under him for what? 5 years?

This is an asset, as most of that shows in his ability to recruit talent and build outside support for the team. The swings in consistency that had dissappeared under Meyer have returned, but are far less in magnitude.

He also has some Meyer in him. This shows in the fact that our team is still more disiplined than they ever were under McBride. Whittingham’s teams though appear to still be having fun, rather than a pure business like approach under Meyer.

He also has some Lavell Edwards in him from his playing days. This shows in his off the field phylosophy and character. I hope this translates into a value for long term commitments to a single program. All signs appear to support this idea.

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Nov 10, 2009 7:27 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

actually it was whittingham's defenses that won most of the game's

when mcbride was there. utah won b/c of whittingham’s capabilities as dc. not b/c anything ron mcbride did. all i’ll give mcbride is he was better than jim fassel.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 11:02 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I think we can hedge the spread and come out on top.

I like all the comments here. I think we have a rough game ahead, but like all good teams, we will succeed. I think our conditioning, our plays, and our coaches and players will come firing on all cylinders.

by The_Kaiser on Nov 9, 2009 4:47 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

TCU

Before the season started I thought the Frogs were destined for a BCS bowl. And they have been as good as advertised. Who of us didn’t enjoy their beatdown of BYU?!? But now we are really the only team in their way to fullfilling their destiny, it’s funny how our roles are flipped from last year when Utah was destined to play in a BCS game. All I can hope is the game is as good as last years, I think i’m going to have to go back and watch that game sometime this week. I looked at the ticket stubs from last year and fittingly Brian Johnson was the player featured on the ticket that week.

by utahmanami on Nov 9, 2009 8:47 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

We play well against Dalton

but he’s the reason why TCU will beat us, IMO.

He gives that offense the balance it’s been missing under Gary Patterson since Ballard replaced Tye Gunn in Provo in ’05 and led them to a MWC title.

I definitely think we have a chance in this game, and history suggests we match up very well with the Frogs, but a true freshman in his first road start against an excellent team usually spells trouble.

St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester

by BoylenOver on Nov 10, 2009 12:30 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

i said the same thing but you said it better. it's just not dalton

tcu uses 7 rb’s if you include dalton and they all have speed. the special teams might make a difference. kersey had that unbelievable return for a td that espn had for the highlight of the night. just as special teams won it for utah last year the tables just might turn in favor of the hornfrogs.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 10:58 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I have a creeping feeling that Wynn is not just someone special...

I feel that Wynn is more than anyone of us could ever imagine, you just have nothing but good feelings about this young kid and I don’t care what anyone says, there is no way he is a freshman!

by FromTucsonWithLove on Nov 10, 2009 1:56 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

More than anyone of us could ever imagine?

I imagined him to be as talented as Joe Montana; as good-looking as Brad Pitt; as strong in bed as Ron Jeremy; and as stainless as Jesus.

You mean to tell me he’s MORE than that? Holy shit.

St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester

by BoylenOver on Nov 10, 2009 5:02 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

So, QB Wise . . .

anyone thinking we should have started Wymm or at leats gotten him in a tad more? He’s going fom a demoralized, talent free New Mexico team at home to a talent rich, freaked out TCU environment.

I mean, a lot of folks are saying he’s the real deal this kid, I’m hoping he stays in their pitching, runs when that is best, and win or lose he keeps his head on.

by MeanBobMean on Nov 10, 2009 7:23 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Who knows...

We’ll find out.

If he falters badly, it’s possible had we started him earlier, Utah doesn’t beat CSU and AFA.

by JazzyUte on Nov 10, 2009 11:16 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

“It wasn’t just because TCU missed a couple crucial field goals deep in the Utes’ territory.”
It… kind of was. Make those Field Goals and it’s a two possession game late, and even the gutsy TD drive that the Utes put on late wouldn’tve evened the score. That means Utah would’ve had to run more of a hurry up offense, leading to a higher chance of a turnover against a very good Frog secondary.

Also, I know that Utah/TCU/BYU are the three headed beast of the MWC, but it’s presumptuous to call TCU a rival, particularly since- A.) We’ve played six times.
B.) TCU has only won once.

If TCU evens the series a bit more in the future, then the rivalry talk can really begin.

by HawkeyedFrog on Nov 10, 2009 8:01 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

I would consider the Frogs a rival.

It doesn’t have the same meaning to us as the Holy War, or your in-state matchups, but beating TCU means a lot to me. That win last year will be at the top of my list for a long time.

St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester

by BoylenOver on Nov 11, 2009 1:08 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

“A good team that you beat” isn’t really the same as a rival. Until TCU puts some numbers in the W column against your boys, then it should be game on.

by HawkeyedFrog on Nov 11, 2009 6:24 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

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