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Does Big Ten expansion mean BCS for Utah?

I'm sure you've heard by now the Big Ten is seriously looking at expansion down the road. It's not something that'll happen the second this season wraps up - hell, it probably won't happen by 2011, either. However, it's something we'll most likely see in the next decade (so, that's a ten-year window).

Now how does this impact Utah? Well directly, it doesn't. The Big Ten ain't expanding this far west. There is a slightly better chance Tiger Woods is declared a saint by the Catholic Church than the Utes ever playing a game in a conference a thousand miles from their campus. 

But it does indirectly impact them. In fact, they face a greater impact than any non-BCS team because if either the Big 12 or Pac Ten were to ever expand, the Utes would be atop both lists. Now I'm not saying they would get an invite to either conference, but they would receive a longer look than say Colorado State or even Boise State. 

Star-divide

So, let's assume at the end of the 2011 season, the Big Ten expands. Right now, it's unclear who they want. Obviously Notre Dame continues to see the brunt of their push, however, it's not just the Irish who are expansion candidates. Syracuse, West Virginia, Missouri, Iowa State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and even Nebraska - if you believe the link I posted above - appear to be logical choices. 

Out of that, Notre Dame still seems the least likely because the Irish are very content with their situation. And they should be because they've got it made. They have their own TV deal. Their own path to the BCS. A national recruiting base and the most prestigious program name in all of sports (that includes the Dallas Cowboys, New York Yankees and Boston Celtics.

Let's say the Irish turn down any offer the Big Ten throws at them. This leaves Big 12 teams and Big East teams as potential newcomers to the conference.

This is where things begin to indirectly impact Utah. 

Missouri and Iowa State are reasonable choices because they're Midwest schools. Iowa State is a natural rival with Iowa and Missouri is a natural rival with Illinois (they play yearly). Now it's a no-brainer that the Tigers offer a better all around program than the Cyclones. They're also the dominant program in the state - unlike ISU. 

If it came down to these two Big 12 teams, the Big Ten is probably going with Missouri. If they accept, that opens the door to Big 12 expansion. 

Now it gets a bit more interesting.

Firstly, there is Arkansas of the SEC. The Razorbacks' greatest history is tied back to the old Southwest Conference. If you're not familiar, a good bulk of the SWC makes up the current Big 12 South. That includes Texas, who at one point had one of the nation's largest rivalries with Arkansas. That's fizzled since the Razorbacks left the SWC in 1991 for the SEC. 

But would they accept? Is Arkansas content in the SEC? I honestly don't know because I'm not an Arkansas fan. They could be. I mean, perception wise, the SEC is the nation's best conference. If you win in the SEC, you're almost guaranteed the most exposure. The Big 12, on the other hand, took a hit this season with the pathetically bad North and the collapse of Oklahoma. 

Of course, football ebbs and flows. Five years ago, the SEC was so weak that its champion - an undefeated Auburn team - couldn't sniff the national championship game. Does anyone believe today an undefeated SEC team would be denied a shot at the championship? Probably not. However, it's possible had a Big Ten or Pac Ten team gone undefeated this year - an undefeated Big 12 team is left on the outside looking in. 

Ultimately, from an outsiders perspective, the Big 12 is a better fit than the SEC for a program like Arkansas. I make this claim mostly because of their history with the old SWC and the fact they just haven't really been able to take it to the next level in the SEC. Granted, they've been close and maybe Bobby Petrino gets things turned around there and makes them not only an SEC power, but a nation power. Right now, though, it hasn't happened. Until it does, Arkansas will always seem more like the step-sister to that league than anything else. 

That leaves the option for them to bolt to the Big 12. Let's say they do. How does this impact Utah? I mean, the conference still is stuck at twelve teams. No name change. No need for expansion, right? 

Well...

The thing here is that if Arkansas goes to the Big 12, they're not going to be delegated to the North. It just isn't going to happen because they don't fit the geography of a North team. They are a South team and will play in the South. The problem here is that there is just one too many teams in the South now. It makes for uneven divisions and that can't happen. 

This leaves the option open for expansion. 

The Big 12 now needs a North team to replace Missouri, or Iowa State. Who gets the nod? 

 

  • BYU: They were originally at the top of the list when the Big Eight turned to twelve teams back in the 90s. This, however, ended when Baylor took the last vacancy. The Cougars are still a very viable option and certainly would get a strong look by the conference.
  • TCU: They seem like the most natural and logical choice because they're in Texas. Except we're looking for a Big 12 North team and would TCU fit in the North even though they play in a state dominated by the South? Possibly. I'm sure they'd accept it. The problem here is that the Texas schools might not like the idea of opening the state even further to a local school. And if TCU gets the BCS nod, they automatically receive the cred it takes to grab big-time talent. Would Oklahoma, Nebraska and the Texas schools sign off on that? I'm not so sure. TCU also suffers from the fact it doesn't have a significant base of support within the Metroplex. They struggled this year to sellout their stadium, even though they had the greatest season in school history.
  • Utah: In the 90s, they weren't on the radar because the program hadn't evolved to the point it is today. They fit geographically and can spark up their rival with Colorado again. Up until the 60s, both these programs dominated the Rocky Mountain region in football and played nearly every season. Does it mean a rivalry can be cultivated from that? No. But it does suggest there is some history.

As you can see, there are some dominoes that need to fall to get Utah even on their radar. I'm not sure it happens that way and obviously there are other scenarios that could play out (Arkansas turning them down, meaning they can take Utah/BYU/TCU and keep the current league number at twelve or the Big Ten picking a current Big East program). But it's still a viable option.

The most likely scenario, though, is the Pac Ten option. Right now, the conference is content at ten teams. However, if the Big Ten jumps to 12 (remember, they're at 11 right now), does this force their hands? The expansion of the Big Ten would bring about a conference championship game and I think we can all agree they've played an important role for the SEC and Big 12. 

If that happens, the Pac Ten and Big East will be the lone BCS conferences without a title game. Now I think the lack of a conference championship game has hindered the conference, but ultimately they've been able to get away with it because the Big Ten hasn't fallen into the trend, either. If they go, though, it might force the conference into conceding tradition and entering into the dreaded twelve-team league. 

Which means they need two teams to fill the void. There is a very good chance Utah is either #1 or #2 on that list. If the Pac Ten does expand, I think we can call agree the Utes are the most likely of any team at any level in the nation to receive that first phone call.

But that's basing all of this on the current setup today. Utah is still riding its 2009 Sugar Bowl win over Alabama and much can change over the course of the next few years. Maybe BYU and Boise State eclipse the Utes fully by 20XX and if that happens, it's possible - though I think unlikely - they become the Pac Ten's #1 and #2. 

In the end, this is all speculation and relies on a ton of what ifs. But right now, it appears we're closer than ever to the possibility. 

We'll see.

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Nice post man, very interesting, I agree on our best chances would be Pac-10 but in order for that to happen we need to be consistently good or else the sugar bowl win is going to be a fluke in most ppls minds

by MalibuLSV23 on Dec 15, 2009 10:09 PM MST reply actions  

Definitely.

If the Mountain West isn’t included into the BCS, we need to be consistent. 9-3 is a start. We’re ranked and that’s huge considering most felt this would be a rebuilding year.

It’s also important to win our bowl games and OOC games against the Pac Ten.

We have a chance in a couple weeks.

by JazzyUte on Dec 15, 2009 10:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Boise State???

What would happen if/when the Boise invite comes this summer and the MWC is declared a BCS league for the 2012 season?? If the Big 10 takes 18 months that would mean an invite would be in the summer of 2011 with play set to begin in 2012, and if the Big 10 expands I am sure the Pac-10 will do the same. There could be a serious problem if Utah gets an invite to join the Pac-10 in the summer of 2011 which would be one year after Boise State joins the league, and begin play in 2012. There could be a chance that the MWC could be a BCS league without Utah if they decide to jump to the Pac-10.

IF the MWC does get an auto bid I am not so sure Utah would be better off going to the Pac-10. First off in the MWC even with Boise the Utes would be a contender for the conference title every year. In the Pac-10 they would be in the first tier but most likely behind Oregon and USC for the first few recruiting cycles. So, why go to a league where you most likely will not win a conference title for the first five years or go to a BCS bowl, but if they stay in the MWC they have a legit shot to win every year.

Unless the money was that much bigger to join the Pac-10 I could see the Utes staying in the MWC as long as they are a BCS league.

by Jeremy Mauss on Dec 15, 2009 10:14 PM MST reply actions  

Hey now, you're talking about way more what ifs! :P

I think it’s still very unlikely the Mountain West expands this summer and it’s even more unlikely the BCS invites us.

by JazzyUte on Dec 15, 2009 10:49 PM MST up reply actions  

The money is much better in every BCS conference than in any non-BCS conference

And further much better in the Big 12*/Pac 10/ACC than the Big East, and much better in the SEC and Big Ten than the Big 12*/Pac 10/ACC.

  • The Big 12 does not distribute revenues equally. Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas make Big Ten / SEC level money; Iowa State makes Big East level money.

by drothgery on Dec 16, 2009 8:55 AM MST up reply actions  

Expansion????? - $$$$$$

Let us all remember – it’s all about the $$$$$$. Conference championships add millions to the collective conference vault from teams that have the largest following (markets). I’m always amused when the “respect” talk begins. Sugar bowl / Fiesta bowl appearances notwithstanding, the attitude mantra is “how much $$$ do you add to our table???” Boise State is a non-factor. BYU would be a serious contender were it not for the “we don’t play on Sunday” issue. This creates a scheduling nightmare for the bigger conferences as they regularly play on Sunday with their lesser sports – tennis, soccer, swimming etc. etc. By comparison, Utah has a better overall pedigree but I remain skeptical as the PAC-10 has yet to show any genuine interest. Simply put, the money just isn’t there.

Big 10 expansion may put downward pressure on the PAC 10 to expand and/or a possible automatic BCS bid to the MWC. However, I believe Utah will be playing in the MWC for many years to come with a far better chance of future BCS appearances than over half the teams in the PAC-10 anyway. After all, when was the last time we saw, WSU, ASU, Arizona, OSU, Stanford, CAL, UCLA yada, yada, yada in a BCS bowl? THE CONFERENCE OF CHAMPIONS!!! Whatever . . .

by mtseats on Dec 15, 2009 11:16 PM MST reply actions  

If you're going to put Arkansas in the Big 12 because of the old SWC ties

…you have to at least mention that TCU was also in the SWC and would be attractive to the Big 12 for the same reason.

It was a great selection of awesome.

by battlekow on Dec 15, 2009 11:24 PM MST reply actions  

You're right.

I didn’t come out and say it, but I hinted at it because of the geography and history.

With that said, if the Big 12 expands to 14 and Arkansas is apart of that, they will need a Big 12 North team and I’m not sure TCU fits in the North. Though, who knows?

by JazzyUte on Dec 15, 2009 11:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Jazzy,

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Dec 16, 2009 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

If the Big 12 is expanding to 14 (unlikely IMO), won't they need 3 teams?

I mean, if Arkansas is going to the South, won’t they then be at 12? And so they’ll need two teams for the north, one to replace Missouri and one to bring the total to 14. If the big 12 is really going to become the big 14 (again, very unlikely), and they need two north teams, I think BYU and Utah are the calls.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

You're right.

I was looking at this from the POV of Arkansas acting as the 13th team. But you’re absolutely right. If they expand to 14 (which you say, is a longshot), they will need two other teams and under that scenario, both Utah and BYU could get the nod. Or Utah and TCU or BYU and TCU.

by JazzyUte on Dec 16, 2009 12:43 PM MST up reply actions  

How does this look?

Big 12 North
BYU
Colorado
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Nebraska
Utah

Big 12 South
Arkansas
Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

I like it!

by JazzyUte on Dec 16, 2009 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Why would we want to be in the Pac-10 if...

we can earn an Automatic Bid for our own league? Also, all of Utah history is with teams in our current conference. We have ZERO history with the team in the Pac-10. Utah is in the Mountain Time Zone, while all of the Pac-10 schools are in the Pacific with the exception of Arizona and Arizona State (who are only in Utah’s time zone while we are not on daylight savings time). Also, Utah competes for conference championships every season in a lot of different sports in the MWC. If the Pac-10 ever came calling, we would have to compete against the USC’s, Oregon’s, UCLA’s, etc. of the world for recruits. I personally don’t want to deal with that. I like where we are. We don’t need the Pac-10 to be successful. If we were to go undefeated next season in football – which could happen because we get BYU, TCU, and Pittsburgh at home and Notre Dame, Iowa State, and Air Force looking like difficult but managable road games – we might end up playing in the National Title Game.

by pappyman on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 AM MST reply actions  

What makes you think we're guaranteed an auto-bid?

And maybe I’m in the minority here, but I’d rather play the likes of USC, UCLA, Oregon, Cal and Oregon State on a yearly basis over New Mexico, Wyoming and Colorado State.

No disrespect to those programs, but it’s hard to get excited for them – history or not.

by JazzyUte on Dec 16, 2009 2:03 AM MST up reply actions  

Money.

The PAC 10’s revenue is about 20 times the revenue of the MWC. Even Utah, who makes more than most in the MWC, would get a huge boost by going to the PAC 10, not to mention increased ticket prices, attendance, stadium expansion, etc.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Dec 16, 2009 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

That's just it.

Firstly, the MWC is not built like a BCS conference. If we become a BCS conference, we’re probably now even below the Big East in terms of perception. Maybe after years of success that would change, but it’s still a perception game we’d be fighting.

Add the fact that I believe Wyoming, Colorado State and New Mexico have tapped out their potential base of fan support and success (I mean, do we really believe going BCS will give Wyoming a 45,000-50,000 seat stadium?) and we’re still a very shallow league – BCS or not.

In the PAC Ten, the only team that is on CSU’s and New Mexico’s level is Washington State.

by JazzyUte on Dec 16, 2009 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Automatic Bid? Unlikely.

In any event, given past performance, Utah’s BCS path by way of the MWC is much better than any PAC-10 team with the possible exception of USC. I agree that playing PAC-10 schools as a member does have its appeal but, I really don’t care either way.

Truth is, I’m still reeling a little over the TDS loss. After watching the game again, Utah’s OC performance was abysmal with the officiating almost as bad. Yes, I am going to San Diego and will support my team. Nevertheless, I maintain that Utah is an OC away from having a top 10 team year in and year out.

by mtseats on Dec 16, 2009 8:50 AM MST reply actions  

We'll get there. Just remember how we felt after the '07 Holy War.

Go read the archives. In fact, here’s a post I made grading that game:

http://www.blocku.com/2007/11/25/203343/78

Now compare it to my grades from this year’s game:

http://www.blocku.com/2009/11/30/1179242/holy-war-report-card

Eerily similar and we were okay in the end.

by JazzyUte on Dec 16, 2009 12:45 PM MST up reply actions  

great article.

I love the piece about Arkansas, definitely an interesting puzzle.
However, I am not sure if Arkansas would leave or not. It depends on how dominant the SEC is this next decade and how Arkansas fares in that dominance. The school is hungry for a national title and was knocking on the door with the 2007 SEC Championship game. If Arkansas left for the Big 12 it would, in my opinion, have a better chance in the Big 12 North. It would provide Arkansas the chance to dominate a division and the Big 12 a better title game every year. I dont see how going to the Big 12 South would benefit Arkansas in any way. It would be no different than staying in the SEC West, which is dominated by a few teams every year.
After twenty years we havent seen a major shakeup in the divisions, thats an entire generation that knows things as they are. It would take quite a bit of wheeling and dealing to make ANY changes at this point. But, it might be time to shake things up and bring some new life to the game…as soon as the ratings start to fall.

by unknownx on Dec 16, 2009 11:15 AM MST reply actions  

Arkansas

Nice post.

Terrible fit for the SEC, they just don’t seem to get any attention.

Now, in the SWC they were a power at times.

Be good to see them back in their old home.

by MeanBobMean on Dec 16, 2009 1:34 PM MST reply actions  

I agree.

But it basically comes down to whether Arkansas would like the idea. Not sure if they’re more content in the SEC than the Big 12 (14).

by JazzyUte on Dec 16, 2009 1:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Have to wonder . . .

If their recruiting base would improve if tehy were in teh Big-12, they could get kids ot play against gitoric rivals, and get kids outta teh SEC areas that did not care to play in the SEC. As it stands, competing in Texas for teh SEC, or in the SEC ot move to Arky, I don’t see it.

by MeanBobMean on Dec 17, 2009 6:20 AM MST up reply actions  

i rather build the mwc than join the pac-ten

much easier to join something than build something. lets add boise state and two other teams so we have a cg. then get our aq bcs conference status and then we are set. the pac-ten and the big 11 want those extra teams so they can have a cg b’c it works so effectively for the sec. btw the sec considers the big ten and pac-ten as a joke. we would get much more respect if we built the conference rather than joining someone else’s just my opinion

yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Dec 16, 2009 2:17 PM MST reply actions  

With our media market . . .

We’ll have to force them to do that in court. essentially, all the larger markets would be paying to upgrade our image for us, tehy’ll hate that. They’ll say, rightly, that three good to ok teams are forcing the high money markets ot give New Mexico and UNLV a brand name and recruiting power, mor emoney for being perennial hose bags.

While people can say “well, BCS conferences have crappy teams too . . .” and be correct, those teams residen in better media markets and create more resources for teh BCS.

The MWC likely would not be paying its fair share, would it?

by MeanBobMean on Dec 17, 2009 6:23 AM MST up reply actions  

i think we are getting a bcs conference status. the big ten wants pitt to join

that would leave the big east with seven teams. we would get their aq bcs conf status if it works out that way. we could earn it on our own too with all three top teams from mwc winnning thier bowl games. byu if the beat osu bad can make the top nine in the country. tcu beats boise and we have two teams in top ten for second year in a row. the teams ahead of byu are playing each other so any win gets them to number 10. a really impressive win over the 16th ranked beavers would look good. i expect utah to win too if they play smart.

yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Dec 16, 2009 5:00 PM MST reply actions  

Pitt is an excellent choice

Great town, great football fans, great market share. Drives another nail into the big East, helps rejuvenate Big Ten . . . smart as hell I’d say.

by MeanBobMean on Dec 17, 2009 6:24 AM MST up reply actions  

interesting points.

Why would Arkansas leave the SEC? The SEC is the best revenue generating league.

The main reason the B10 might expand is because the B10 network wants a larger TV market. This leaves stealing Iowa St. from the B12 out because they already have Iowa. It would have to be Missouri or Nebraska and I don’t know how likely that is. I think the main reason B10 expansion is on the table is because Joe Paterno wants to expand east. If he gets his way it will be a Big East team they steal (Rutgers, Syracuse, with Pitt 3rd because they already have Penn to cover the state TV market.)

If Pac10 expansion happens it would be for the same reason. Expand the TV market. I know they are exploring a PAC 10 network option similar to the one the Big 10 has. This would put pressure on the PAC 10 to expand the same way it did the Big 10.
This means BYU or Utah may be selected, but not both because the market footprint needs 2 states to merit Pac 10 expansion. The only way I see this happening is if the PAC10 somehow steals Colorado from the B12. This gives the PAC10 the west.

The missing void in the B12 north left by Colorado could then be filled by BYU/Utah, whichever team the PAC10 leaves behind. They could take TCU; however, they already have the Texas market. They don’t need 5 teams from the same state in one conference. They would have to change the B12 south division to the B12 Texas division.

Personally, I like the idea of the MWC becoming a BCS conference most. I believe the Pac 10 needs unanimous consent for expansion which decreases the likelyhood of change.

by daedalus17 on Dec 17, 2009 3:05 PM MST reply actions  

Up until two years ago at the latest, the Arkansas designation for a player who was dogging it was to have to wear a burnt orange jersey during practice.

Arkansas would jump at the chance to have a chance to play Texas every year in a conference where if you go undefeated you’ll play for the title. A bit of SWC history, Arkansas left the SWC for the SEC because of the giant cloud of probation on all of the SWC schools apart from them and Rice in the early 90s. Arkansas would have been offered an invitation to the Big 12 if the Texas Governor had not blocked Texas and A&M from joining unless the Big 12 took Tech and Baylor as well.

Though Arkansas is fairly happy in the SEC, I would bet any amount of money they would make the move to the Big 12 if offered a position which guaranteed them a game with Texas every year.

As for what impact that would have on the MWC, it’s hard to say. I have no idea who the SEC might tap to replace Arkansas in that situation (Georgia Tech? Clemson?) but the domino effect for the conferences would be huge, and the MWC might get stripped of power teams before AQ becomes an issue, since nobody out of BYU/Utah/TCU would want to be the only high quality team in the league. As it is, I think an automatic qualifier MWC is the conference that offers the best opportunity for the Big 3 + Boise to be nationally successful.

by HawkeyedFrog on Dec 18, 2009 1:24 AM MST reply actions  

Good points

Thanks for the interesting tidbits on Texas and Arkansas, I had forgotten the Texas Homer job on Arkansas in the Big-12 but I recall the cloud that hung over the SWC.

The political pressure applied to keep those schools from the death penalty must have been enormous, they were rife with filthy practices. Down here in the South, they brag as to how the old SEC commissioner kept investigators away.

by MeanBobMean on Dec 18, 2009 7:57 AM MST up reply actions  

It’s a whole hell of a lot easier to come down hard on an arrogant, yet very small, fan and alumni base like SMU and tell the other schools to straighten up than it is to explain to the 90k Alabama or Texas fans who show up every week that there will be no games this season.

My dad played at SMU and told me stories about how after a good game there would be “a little something extra” in his locker, and a booster waiting outside with a “generous handshake”, but it was something that literally every program in the South got busted for, apart from perhaps Arkansas and Rice. Coming down on SMU, even though it couldn’tve happened to a more deserving group of fans, was incredibly hypocritical.
Ah well, at least my frogs escaped death.

by HawkeyedFrog on Dec 18, 2009 7:48 PM MST up reply actions  

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