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Around SBN: Kentucky Wildcats 66, Alabama Crimson Tide, 55: Postmortem

Matt Hinton's flawed logic

Matt Hinton, if you don't know, is the official college football blogger over at Yahoo Sports. I'm a fan, have been since his days running Sunday Morning Quarterback, but I do find his Mountain West preview a bit flawed. 

I know what you're thinking, I have issues with this because he picks BYU over Utah. Not true. I believe the Cougars are very capable of winning the Mountain West. That isn't my problem at all, rather it's the way he dismisses Utah.

Because of this, I've decided to break down each point and the issues I have with them (well most, anyway). 

• The Utes lost 60 percent of last year's yards from scrimmage -- most of them created one way or another by Johnson, the MWC offensive player of the year -- as well as the three leading receivers.

Actually, this is a fair point. The Utes do lose most of their offense and if they lose the Mountain West, it'll be this reason and most likely this reason alone. With that said, they bring back arguably the best defense in the conference and that should help ease in a new offense. 

• They won four games by a field goal or less, a red flag for any team losing so much of the core of its team, especially when the numbers say they were largely outplayed in the last-second comebacks against Oregon State and TCU.

This is the point I might have most issue with because it isn't used in the context of BYU -- Matt's favorite to win the conference. Sure, the Utes did manage through some extremely close contests, however, so did the Cougars and that doesn't seem to be an issue for them. Why? 

In fact, I'd wager BYU has more to worry about because their struggles were a prelude to late-season issues, specifically in their games against TCU, Utah and Arizona during the Las Vegas Bowl. Remember, the Cougars held off the 0-12 Huskies only after they blocked a possible game-tying field goal (which came after a penalty pushed Washington back). 

They struggled against the Rebels, barely eeking out a victory at home and nearly lost to Colorado State a week later. There you have three games the Cougars realistically could have lost. What's the difference between those three and Utah's four, namely Oregon State and TCU? Well, as mentioned, Washington finished the season 0-12, UNLV was 5-7 and Colorado State went 7-6. Or in other words, none of those three teams were any good and yet BYU nearly lost to each of them. 

Utah's victory over TCU was close, but I'd hardly say the Frogs outplayed them. Well unless you count their first two drives only, when they went up 10-0. Beyond that, the game was rather even and showed in the score, as Utah would outscore TCU 13-0 throughout the remainder of the game. 

I think that game is often used the most to show just how close the Utes were to the tipping point, but it's often not looked at in the entire context of the contest. Yet people fail to realize the Frogs didn't score once in the second half. How that constitutes totally outplaying Utah, I do not know.

With that said, I'll give Matt Oregon State. They did outplay Utah and nearly had the game won until a late meltdown. However, I'd take being outplayed by Oregon State and winning over being outplayed by UNLV and winning -- as was the case for BYU. 

So in this regard, I think he's off base. It's rare a team runs through its schedule similar to what Utah did in 2004. It just does not happen. Having close contests, games that come down to the final seconds, surely could tilt a season in one direction or another, but that is the case for nearly every team and does not automatically suggest the same can't happen again. I'm sure Utah will have another cluster of close games this season, but I don't believe the outcome is automatically in the opponent's favor because of what happened in 2008.

Close games are just that, close games. In fact, I think people rely too much on the past to solidify their predictions for the future and that's another thing Matt does to discredit Utah's chances this season.

• None of Kyle Willigham's first three Utah teams finished higher than third place.

This is a point he's made before, suggesting Whittingham's past gives us an idea of what to expect in the coming years. 

All that is to say that, from a team with unusual experience, pluck, grit and all of those exceptional qualities, there remains an undeniably rebuilding outfit that will probably fall much closer to "average" on the curve. For Utah, "average" under Kyle Whittingham is this:2005: 7-5, T-4th Mtn. West (three-way tie, 4th-6th)2006: 8-5, T-3rd Mtn. West2007: 9-4, T-3rd Mtn. West

It's easy to look at Whittingham's first three years and claim that he's an average coach who had one exceptional season. On paper, prior to 2008, Whittingham hadn't done much beyond getting the Utes to a bowl game and winning that bowl game. Decent and definitely something many programs (Utah pre-2003) would love, but not the type of success that would turn heads. Based on that -- the past -- no one would have expected anything close to what Utah managed to do in 2008 (well outside of Ute fans and maybe CFN).

But there always seems to be a back-story, something not really known by the outside press. So when they look at Utah's record prior to last season, they see 2008 as more of an anomaly than anything else. However, if you look at the situation facing each of those seasons, you'd understand it's more than Utah just playing average football.

In 2005, a season removed from 12-0, Utah had to pretty much start from scratch. That included the players and the coaches. In 2009, this is not the case. The Utes surely have to replace talent on offense, but as I said earlier, they bring back a defense that is far more experienced than what we saw in 2005. Furthermore, there isn't nearly the turnover in coaches like when Urban Meyer bolted for Florida. 

In 2006, expectations were high, but it became clear they were still trying to restock the talent after Meyer had left Utah with a dearth of it. That was especially clear with the lack of a running game, since Quinton Ganther had graduated. Without that, Utah's offense often struggled as it became so one-dimensional, no team feared it. Well that was the case until the coaching staff decided to make Eric Weddle the Everything Man. It paid off, as the Utes rebounded and finished the season with a decent enough 8-5 record. 

Finally, you have 2007, where the Utes only really underperformed in one game: UNLV. They lost Brian Johnson and Matt Asiata in the opener against Oregon State -- a game they were leading -- and wouldn't get Johnson fully back until the Utah State game (they won that). Asiata was lost for the season and surely would have been an impact, especially in their games against Air Force and BYU (they lost those). 

Lost in that 'average' season, I guess, were victories over UCLA (11th ranked in the nation at the time), Louisville (on the road), TCU (again, on the road) and Navy (bowl game). Outside of the UNLV contest, the lone blemish in a strong finish was their game against the Cougars -- a contest Utah had won until the final minute.

Had the Utes managed to beat the Rebels like they should have, they most likely finish the season 10-3 instead of 9-4. Now no one would ever question the merits of a 10-win season, would they? What if Utah hadn't lost Johnson for the first three and a half games? Maybe they do lose to Oregon State, but does anyone really believe they drop that game against Air Force and it's possible -- fully healthy -- they don't lose to either UNLV or BYU (remember, Johnson was not fully healthy during that game). 

Of course, that sounds like I'm excusing away these losses and I'm not, but these records aren't exactly what they seem. 

2008 was the first season Utah had the experience and health for all 12 weeks and what happened? They won 12 games. That, in my mind, isn't a coincidence. 

Does that mean the Utes are destined for another 12-0 campaign this year? No, but I think it suggests if they stay fairly healthy, they should push 10-11 wins and if that's the case, they'll be well positioned to win the Mountain West. 

BYU, on the other hand, was projected to win the conference last year and bust the BCS because of the talent they returned. They not only failed to crash the BCS, but they finished 3rd in the conference. This season, while they return more talent than either Utah or TCU, there is still doubt as to whether they've fixed the issues that plagued them in 2008. If they haven't, there is no way they're going to win the Mountain West. And I'd put forth the idea that those issues are just as strong, if not stronger, than Utah's inexperience and lack of finishing no better than third in the conference prior to last season.

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In reality BYU has the least amount of question marks coming into the 2009 season, however, BYU still has a lot to prove, When I look at the Cougs 10-3 record last year, the first thing that comes to mind are those three losses which were all against quality opponents. I don’t have any doubt Max Hall is the best QB in the MWC this year but I don’t think it was a coincidence that his three bad performances came against the Cougars biggest games. furthermore the Cougs O-line is very young and could be BYU’s Achilles heel this year.

by GambitUte on Jul 20, 2009 9:14 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I actually think BYU has a lot to prove.

Utah loses 9 actual starters, BYU loses 10, TCU loses 12 (if my count is correct):

Utah loses: QB, 3 WR, 2 OL (that’s 6 starters on O), 2 corners, 1 end (3 starters on D).
TCU loses: 3 OL, RB (Brown), WR (that’s 5 on O), 3 DL, 2 LB, and 2 S (7 on D)
BYU loses: 4 OL, 2 WR (6 on O), 1 LB, 1 CB, 2 S (4 on D)

I guess if you count Mack then we lost 10, but I’m not sure why everyone keeps saying Utah loses more than BYU. Utah loses more skill positions than BYU, but it’s not like we lost our best WR ever (Collie) or our entire secondary, and keep in mind that OL is usually a strength for BYU, but it will take some time for them to gel. Our OL has approximately 45 combined starts. BYU’s has 20.

Not to mention that it is much easier to replace WR at Utah (see Reed, Brooks, Key, Matthews, etc.) than at BYU (you really think anyone is stepping up to become Collie or Reed). The reason everyone says we lost so much is because they have a returning Sr. QB and we don’t. But the numbers don’t bear out the assumption.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Jul 20, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you know how their experience compares to 2006?

How much on offense did BYU bring back from 2005 to 2006? They made a gigantic leap there, as Beck found his groove on offense and rolled that season.

But I don’t remember how many parts he had to work with. I know Brown returned, but my mind is drawing a blank.

by JazzyUte on Jul 20, 2009 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

No idea.

I have no clue. But, judging by byu.scout.com, they returned the following:

QB- Beck
HB- Brown
OL- Bright (So)
OL- Feinga (So)
OL- Freeman (Jr, not sure if he was a starter)
OL- Keele (Sr, not sure if he was a starter)
OL- Longshore (Sr, not sure if he was a starter)
OL- Reynolds (So)
OL- Rhea (Jr, not sure if he was a starter)
TE- Coats
TE- Harline
WR- Z. Collie
WR- Cooper
WR- Reed
WR- Jacobson

According to their 2005 roster they lost 2 OL from 2005 to 2006, but I don’t remember either of them (Tidwell and Nate Hall)

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Jul 20, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know they lost Watkins...

But they returned a good core of receivers and their tight-ends.

by JazzyUte on Jul 20, 2009 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

Their D wasn’t good enough to qualify and in Edwards’ day they had decent defenses. That D did not improve markedly as the year progressed and I doubt they have vastly superior talent infused this year so I give it a B- for our conference, nationally a C.

Their offense loses their line and a great wideout. We shall see after their first two games what they are made of. I expect them to die at Oklahoma and play tough or beat FSU.

by MeanBobMean on Jul 21, 2009 7:20 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense

As you said…Utah has a great defense coming back even without Kruger and Smith. The defense I would like to talk about is BYU’s. One of the main reason they lose games is because their defense is always horrible. They always have one of the best offenses in the country (course anyone could if they threw 50 passes a game.) but they lose games because they can’t stop the opponent. It’s amazing. They can put up 70 points every game and lose most of them because the opponent always matches it and usually can make the stops to win. Just look at the Tulsa/BYU game a couple years ago. They both just bombed it in the endzone every play. Tulsa picked up a fumble at the end of that game to seal the victory tho. BYU couldn’t stop them. Tulsa couldn’t stop BYU either but they did get the one fumble…so if BYU ever wants to be the BCS team from the MWC, they need a defense that can play with fast teams. Maybe that’s why they wanted coach Whit…

GO UTES!!

by Jman87 on Jul 20, 2009 10:31 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Right. BYU, believe it or not, is a prettier Hawaii.

Hawaii couldn’t stop anyone in 2007 and they lucked out, their schedule was weak enough to provide them an undefeated season. Well BYU plays in a better conference than the WAC and faces far greater competition outside of the conference this season than the Warriors.

Outside of 2006, Bronco’s teams have not been known for their defense.

They were decent enough in 2007, but 2005 and 2008’s teams were downright horrible.

IF BYU is going to do anything this year, they’ll need their defense to step up.

Because teams like Utah and TCU can thwart the Cougar offense to the point where there won’t be a Tulsa-like shootout and instead, a blowout. Remember, Utah pretty much had their way with the Cougars’ defense for much of the Holy War last November.

by JazzyUte on Jul 20, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may like this . . .

My kids, yes I am LDS, attended Youth Conference last week? The speakers were BYU Football players including Jorgensen? One of the Bishop of the Second Ward’s kids got a huge Utah banner and waved it as they ran out into the hall. My kids came home laughing their guts out, said the BYU players came out pumping their fists turned saw that flag and went dead in the water, stopped in their tracks.

This may not win us any games this year, but I liked it. The FSU game here is splitting our ward down the middle. We talked about having an activity, pot luck that night? We decided it might not be a good idea . . .

by MeanBobMean on Jul 21, 2009 7:17 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's awesome.

Hell, I’m split on the FSU-BYU game.

I for sure do not want the Cougars to win their game against the Sooners — which I don’t think they will.

But the Seminoles would be a nice get for a MWC team, especially if Utah can somehow master a one-loss season and get into a BCS bowl via the Cougars not totally embarrassing us in their out of conference games.

by JazzyUte on Jul 21, 2009 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Luck and Meyer

You very often do have to have luck to win all your games, no question you need some at some point.

But last year? Last year we lost so many interior D linemen that people—until the gun sounded at the Sugar Bowl—laughed at our line and tried to run at it. Remember what the Alabama fans very politely said? How could we possibly match up line wise? So what “luck” helped us there? The “luck” of playing a smallish, inexperienced interior line all season? We won in spite of that.

Last year there was only one "great" team. They were great because they won every game regardless of the position they found themselves in and they did it themselves, by stopping teams and then driving the ball and scoring. Florida cannot say that, nor can USC—both folding when it counted. I watched that OSU game at home after watching it live—I was near the end zone we scored in on our final drive. OSU committed more than one intentional interference, they finally got called for it, and that cost them. They committed the foul because they could not stop our guys from getting open. That aint luck, that’s being outplayed. I picked OSU to win that game, they did outplay us almost all game—but not when it counted and Utah showed great team mentality and—I hate this word in sports—poise. When Tennessee won their title they had the SEC game handed to them by Arkansas and played an FSU team using it’s 4th string QB—winning ugly and barely as I recall. That aint greatness, that is pure dumb luck, regardless of the title you claim to hold. Last year Utah wasn’t a surprise or good team, they were great and that is why we may be better than people expect us this year, mental toughness.

Now, we did have exceptional DBs—two gone, both on pro rosters. That my friends, not Brian Johnson, is likely our greatest loss (though I’d say Johnson’s intangibles as a leader will be missed). When you have an inexperienced and smallish line consistently killing QBs it’s lock down coverage.

What the author fails to grasp that most of us saw last year, well last three? Utah outperformed BYU athletically at many positions, and TCU and Utah have team speed and depth BYU does not seem to possess.

Just as Michigan gets its props regardless (one ranking system had them ranked last year prior to Utah—we all know who the better team was) regardless, BYU has the reputation in our league. If Utah kills them and TCU both the next few years that might change, but after the Sugar Bowl some I think 20% of voters admitted they had no idea how good Utah was, had never seen them play. They therefore ascribe it to chance and luck why? Because they aren’t mortals so they can’t be wrong. These same folks who peg Clemson to finish “top 5-10, guaranteed” year after year did not watch us last year.

They missed a great team.

As I’ve said many time: we’ve never been a football school, that sits and weighs on players’ minds. If we’ve turned that corner on mental toughness? If we now believe in ourselves as a program? Watch us, because our coach has an eye for talent and making players better and he works hard, hard, hard. We might not be a national caliber team year in and out, but we could be tough for this conference this year, and there are 4 very good teams in it (Air Force should be quite good).

Meyer when he left, people forget, had talent not only that bailed out early, but that transferred themselves or their recruiting commitment away—the cupboard was more than bare, it was severely depleted.

by MeanBobMean on Jul 21, 2009 7:09 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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