Block U: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Once A Metro covering Red Bull New York!

Playing the percentage game

If you're forced to go over Utah's schedule and assign each game a percentage based on the probability, what do you think you'd come up with? It's actually an interesting topic because not every game is on equal footing. Some games are about as close as you can get to a victory, while others might be on the opposite end of that spectrum. 

But what about Utah's 2009 schedule? I do not believe there is a game the Utes can't win, but I also don't think they'll go undefeated. It just does not happen much in sports, let alone in back-to-back seasons. So when it comes down to it, the Utes will probably compete in all twelve games, but not necessarily win them all. 

However, if you break it down based on percentages, it becomes clearer what to expect from Utah's season. 

That's what I'm going to do and I'd like to see your input. If you had to break down each game in similar fashion, what would your numbers be?

Utah State

Even though things have greatly changed up in Logan, I don't see this game being much of a challenge for the Utes. Who knows, maybe Andersen will get things rolling sooner than expected, but in his first game, on the road against his team's chief rival they haven't beaten since 1997? Not likely. 

This is the type of game that's pretty much a near-win. Since nothing is a guarantee in college football and the fact there are some unknowns, I'd put the probability of Utah winning this game at 85%.

@ San Jose State

I've said before this game is a bit of a concern because it'll be Utah's first road test and for an inexperienced offense, that could be problematic. Of course, I also expect a win and the fact the Spartans aren't picked to do much in the WAC this season reinforces that thought. I just don't see the Utes losing to the projected 6th-best team in the WAC, regardless where the game is being played.

That puts Utah's game against SJSU at slightly more difficult than USU, but not quite terrifying status. Putting this game at 70% probability sounds about right. 

@ Oregon

Possibly Utah's toughest game on the schedule, since Autzen Stadium is a ridiculously hard place to play for opposing players. Oregon is supposed to contend for the Pac Ten this year and if they get out of Boise alive, most certainly will be a top-ten team by week three. 

That doesn't bode well for the Utes. Not to say they can't win, but if there is one game I feel Utah most likely will lose this season, it's this one. If this were at home, I'd be singing a different tune, however, it isn't and because of that, I give Utah a 40% probability of winning. Not too low I don't see the possibility of a victory, but not high enough to expect a victory. 

Louisville

I think Louisville is the biggest unknown on Utah's schedule because I'm just not accustom to them losing. The fact Steve Kragthorpe is in a pretty much win now situation leads me to believe they'll be a bit better than expected. But will that be enough to defeat the Utes? Probably not and I think even the most diehard Cardinal fans will concede this. 

So while I believe the potential for a loss is there, I can't agree it's likely. Which puts the probability of this game being a win at 70%. At about the same level as SJSU. Maybe I'm giving the Cardinals the benefit of the doubt based on their past success (three years removed from the best season in school history), but I think it's pretty accurate.

@ Colorado State

The Rams were a surprise team last year, somehow making a bowl game and then winning it. I actually predicted Colorado State would do better than the projections had them, however, even I didn't see a 7-6 record. 

Yet even with that established, I think they'll take a bit of a step back this season. Like Utah, they replace their quarterback and I'm not expecting them to sneak up on teams like in 2008. Of course, Louks also had his best game as a Ute against the Rams and maybe that's just a little peek into what to expect this season.

Colorado State will give Utah a test, but I expect the Utes to win and that means I give this game a victory probability of 60%. Not quite Louisville & San Jose State, but definitely not like Oregon (and as you'll see, TCU and BYU).

@ UNLV

Payback? Possibly. The Utes' last trip to Vegas turned out to be the hardest loss in program history. I'm sure they're not quite over it, even after last year's drubbing of the Rebels in Salt Lake. But this isn't the same team Utah faced in 2007 and many in the media expect UNLV to push for a bowl berth. If that's the case, this could certainly be far more difficult than fans expect.

This definitely is not a sure-win like we've seen before, but I'm still not sold enough on Mike Sanford and the Rebels to put this as a game that scares me. It could be close, but the Utes should win and I think that would put their probability of this at about 60%. About equal to what I expect for the CSU game.

Air Force

I hate playing the Falcons. They always give Utah fits and I had hoped with the change in coaches, that would end. It didn't and I don't see any reason to expect this to change. Thankfully, this game is at home and that's at least to Utah's benefit. But it's not enough to call this game a slam dunk. Unfortunately, this is the home game I can see Utah losing and that puts the probability of victory at just 55%. Not entirely bad, but still a game they could easily lose.

Wyoming

This game is going to be nuts. It's on Halloween night and will be Utah's 2nd annual blackout. Add the fact the Cowboys probably won't be much better than they were last year and you've got a contest that could easily tilt Utah's way. In fact, that's exactly what I expect and because of this, I give the Utes an 80% chance of victory. 

Basically, the only reason this isn't 90% is because I just don't know what to fully expect from the Cowboys, since they have an entirely new coaching staff.

New Mexico

Much like the Falcons, the Lobos have been a pain in Utah's side since before time itself. Maybe that changes with a new coaching staff, but based on two-decade long results, I'm not too optimistic of this happening. 

Even though the game could be close or might turn into a nasty back and forth battle, Utah has the advantage of playing at home and that should be enough. Let's put this at a 65% chance of victory.

@ TCU

This game is going to be interesting because I'm sure the Frogs haven't forgotten last year's debacle. But Utah also has won three straight against TCU, two of which came during Patterson's two best seasons ('05 and '08). Which tells me Utah matches up well with the Frogs and maybe that will once again play a role this season.

Likely, though, TCU is going to be the best team in the conference and it will take a near-perfect effort for Utah to win. I actually believe, based on past success, this is a more winnable game than Oregon, but not by much. That puts the probability at around 45%.

San Diego State

Who knows what to expect from the Aztecs. They certainly underperformed last year, so I do believe they'll be better this season. With that said, you can only be burned so many times before you eventually toss the matches and until they prove otherwise, this game just doesn't feel like a loss. A probability of 75% seems cautious enough -- since there will be changes and the chance to improve.

@ BYU

I really don't think it matters what the records are, this game generally will come down to the final few plays. That might not have been the case last year, but it seems 2004 and 2008 are more exceptions to the rule than anything else. 

If that trend holds, expect another 2007-like performance this season. That means no team will have a clear advantage and it could come down to who makes the final big play (prior to 2008, that had been BYU in two consecutive games, with Utah doing it in '05). 

That essentially puts this game as a pick 'em and that's where I have it. A probability of 50%, which means you can go either way.

Based on my numbers, if Utah wins the games I think they should win, we're looking at at least nine-wins. That puts them one rivalry victory away from ten-wins and a decent follow-up to the 2008 undefeated season. 

Of course, these numbers don't mean much, since it's all speculation. And to be honest, they don't account for injuries, growing pains, turnovers and other issues that may impact a season. 

Like two years ago when Utah lost Brian Johnson, Matt Asiata and Brent Casteel in the first two games. That certainly played a role in all three of their losses, regardless of what my probability of victory was prior to each game.

So basically, take this all with a grain of salt. But we can also pretend I know what I'm talking about.

0 recs  |  Comment 27 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

My numbers

USU 95%. Gary Andersen will improve the program, but I think it’s asking too much to expect him to win his first game against Utah.
@ San Jose State 65%. More often than not, Utah should win.
@ Oregon 30%. It’s a tough place to play and Oregon should have an explosive offense.
Louisville 80%. On the road, this might be a toss-up, but at home, Utah should definitely win.
@ CSU 70%. I would give CSU more of a chance if Utah weren’t coming off of a bye week.
@ UNLV 75%. It’s a revenge game and I want blood. I hope the players do too.
Air Force 60%. Agree that AFA gives us too much trouble for comfort, but at home, Utah has the edge.
Wyoming 90%. The Cowboys haven’t won in SLC since Darnell Arceneaux was quarterback.
New Mexico 80%. With a new coaching staff, I just don’t think they are going to be the team that gives Utah fits anymore.
@ TCU 30%. They’ll be waiting for Utah so the Utes had better be prepared.
San Diego State 80%. I’ll like SDSU’s coaching hires, but they were terrible last year. At home, Utah should win.
@ BYU 50%. I agree completely. Pick’em. Neither team has shown much of a home field advantage in this game.

by Ute in DC on Aug 2, 2009 11:36 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm surprised to see 30% for both Oregon and TCU...

I could buy Oregon, but TCU I think is going to be a grueling game where the Utes will be in position to win.

30% to me is essentially a blowout for the Frogs and I don’t see that as possible.

by JazzyUte on Aug 2, 2009 11:40 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The home team wins about 70% of the games in college football so I don’t see that as too out of line.If the two teams played the game ten times, I’m guessing TCU would win about seven. That doesn’t necessarily mean a blowout win.

I reserve the right to change this numbers later in the season though. :)

by Ute in DC on Aug 2, 2009 11:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough...

My hope is that TCU is actually not as good as some believe.

Not because I dislike them, but I think the Utes stand a better chance of a 1-loss season if they’re battling BYU for the top rather than TCU.

by JazzyUte on Aug 3, 2009 12:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good article.

I think the percentage should be slightly lower for USU and slightly higher for SDSU and Wyoming. There’s a combination of factors that leads me to believe the USU game will be a struggle (relative to how easy our games in Logan are).

by BoylenOver on Aug 3, 2009 12:16 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought about it being similar to 2005.

When the Utes really couldn’t pull away from the Aggies until the 4th quarter.

It’s difficult building expectations for teams you don’t know anything about.

Like in 2003, I don’t think anyone would’ve expected the Utes to do what they did,. Even the most optimistic Ute fans expected some rebuilding.

So is there a new coach on this schedule who’ll take their team to the next level instantly? Obviously I’m not talking about Urban Meyer ’03 level, however, for teams like USU, Wyoming, New Mexico and SDSU, just getting to a bowl game would be an entirely new level.

If that’s the case, then all four could be a challenge for the Utes.

by JazzyUte on Aug 3, 2009 12:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's an interesting thought.

My guess would be UNM because they’ve seen more success over the last 5 years than those other teams, and they have better talent in the program. And you’re right, it’s hard to know how the players will react to a change in philosophy and leadership.

It’s not hard to imagine any of those four programs becoming much improved in the next 3-5 years, especially SDSU.

by BoylenOver on Aug 3, 2009 12:49 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that assumes they screw it up in games they're expected to win...

But I just don’t see that as being the case this season.

The only game that I list as a victory I can see the Utes losing is Air Force. The others are hard to see as losses.

So that’s why I said their record would be no worse than 9-3. If it is, I think 8-4 is about as low as Utah gets and I think most Ute fans would agree with that prediction.

by JazzyUte on Aug 3, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good reasoning . . .

And perfectly good percentages. However, I’d make TCU a pick em. We play well there and they lost too much on defense. If we started out there, I’d pick us to win. As is, I’ll say pick em. I expect Schramm to have something up his sleeve for these guys and for our D to pound them—they will not outgain us as they did last year.

BYU? 55%. Why? Team speed. They lost as much or more talent (asa functio of their team, we lost better talent head ot head) than we did, and they are solely reliant on Hall, just like last year. We’re a team effort and by November we will be the better team. Our D will beat their O, our speed will wear out their D.

Oregon? Tempting to rate us downward to 30%, but it depends on our confidence. Utah plays well as an underdog under Whittingham. Oregon gets Utah in between Purdue and Cal. They well could be looking to Cal who is picked to takeover as the Number 2 team in the Pac-10.

by MeanBobMean on Aug 3, 2009 2:41 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I love your optimism and I actually agree about TCU and BYU.

The Utes just match up well with the Frogs.

We can’t ignore the 2006 season because that was a year Utah wasn’t very good and TCU had its best team outside of 2008 under Patterson. Yet Utah went out and beat them, rather handily, here in Salt Lake.

The final score might indicate a fairly close game, but that’s because it was low-scoring and for anyone who was there or watched it, you never got the sense the Utes were going to lose it.

That game showed me Utah can beat TCU, even during a down season. TCU, though, owns only one victory over the Utes since joining the MWC and that came in 2005, in overtime on a controversial play.

Now I’m not saying Utah will win, but I like their chances. I think it’ll be a game similar to 2007 and that should position them for the win.

by JazzyUte on Aug 3, 2009 3:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. . .

We are the School that TCU struggles with mentally, for whatever reason. That is often expressed in the tentative play of a team, it works on fans and that niggling doubt hangs in coaches’ minds. Can they erase it?

Their fans will want it, their kids and coach will be out for blood, but if anything goes wrong for them in that game, they will face a tough mental obstacle. The smallest thing can set a team on their hindquarters, playing defensively.

TCU always comes out with that mindset anyway “don’t lose” and they play stingy. Look at that BSU game. With those stats anyone else would have beaten Boise by 20. TCU creamed BYU because they let it all hang out. If they played like that all the time? Look out world.

I have nothing but respect for Patterson, good man, great coach. I hope TCU is always successful, they deserve it with their work ethic. I thought Tennessee should have hired him.

As for BYU, I have a “challenge” (we don’t bet-heh) with a counselor in our Bishopric. We best win or I have to wear a Coog hat for a year.
.

by MeanBobMean on Aug 4, 2009 6:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mostly agree

If I understand your percentages, you’re talking black or white: victory or loss; not margin of victory. Assuming that, I think the USU game is dang near 100% as you can get. I’ll give the Aggs a couple points and call it 98%, but giving Anderson & co. the benefit of the doubt, I just can’t fathom a scenario where the Utes lose that game THIS year IN SLC. It just isn’t going to happen unless all three of our QBs get hurt in the first 10 minutes after a nasty stomach flu is making its way through the team during the game.

I might even put Wyoming in a similar camp. Minimum 85% for that game.

Otherwise, I think you’re spot on.

by fountainofute on Aug 3, 2009 4:07 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Oregon is going to be as tough as everyone else thinks.

I understand that they’re picked very high, but they look like 2008 Michigan to me. Lots of hype, not a lot of horses to back it up.

One of my favorite statistics is number of combined OL starts. It is surprisingly effective at picking winning teams. Here are our opponents this year:

Utah State: 58 (tied for 73rd place)
San Jose State: 93 (14th place)
Oregon: 20 (118th place)
Louisville: 38 (104th place)
CSU: 129 (1st place, watch out for this game)
UNLV: 61 (tied for 64th)
AF: 63 (tied for 60th)
UW: 75 (tied for 36th)
UNM: 45 (tied for 98th)
TCU: 57 (76th place)
SDSU: 53 (tied for 84th)
BYU: 23 (117th)

Utah, by the way, has 74, coming in at 38th place. Of course, offensive line combined starts does not account for everything, and cannot overcome a massive talent differential. Additionally, it is far more important at the beginning of the year than at the end, as the line grows together as a unit as the season progresses. That is why BYU will be a much much tougher team in November than they are in September, but in September don’t be surprised to see OU and FSU blowing past that OL.

Oregon and Louisville have very inexperienced OL. VERY. Our DL might as well pitch a tent and build a fire in their backfields. Oregon has a very talented defense and skill positions, but if we don’t turn the ball over we should be able to keep them from scoring much, if at all. Autzen is a tough place to play, but new OL + new coach = beatable team.

I’m certainly more worried about TCU and BYU than I am about Oregon. That doesn’t mean we’ll beat Oregon (never forget the PAC 10 refs are the biggest homers in football), but I would put our chances of beating Oregon higher than TCU or BYU.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 3, 2009 4:56 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I think TCU and Oregon will be harder than BYU.

Utah, in my mind, will always be in position to win against them. Not so sure the same will happen against TCU and Oregon.

The last time the Utes were not competitive against the Cougars was in 1996 and I don’t expect BYU to be that good and Utah to be that mediocre. Outside of that, the only lopsided victories have come from Utah.

by JazzyUte on Aug 3, 2009 5:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oregon has. . .

Unbelievable raw talent though in many, many positions. They’ve reloaded for over a decade now, not rebuilt. They have a fantastic running game—one we won’t close out—and they are home kings: the difference mentally and emotionally for a home game is obvious for any team, with Oregon it is exponential.

That game will be tough and could be downright ugly. At the beginning of last year they sought an identity, they found it as the year went on.

If they lose to BSU, they will be ugly at home. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If they win their first two and look past us. . . we have a chance.

by MeanBobMean on Aug 4, 2009 7:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know they're talented.

So was Michigan. Can’t run if nobody opens up holes for you. I know their RBs are great, but breaking in an entirely new OL against our DL sounds like a recipe for a shutout.

That said, Autzen is one of the toughest home fields in college football and I’m not guaranteeing a win by any means. My thought is just that people tend to overlook the importance of a cohesive Offensive Line. On a neutral field I’d take Utah 8 times out of 10 in this game. In Autzen I’d say it’s more like 50-50. I know I would rather be Utah’s team and Utah’s coach than be Oregon’s team and Oregon’s coach, talented skill players or not.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 4, 2009 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Michigan

Was not that talented, nor coherent as a team. Oregon lost talent ot graduation and a few injuries, Michigan had mass defections, had poor recruiting for the QB, and was disgruntled.

Oregon’s been a good “team” for ten years or so. We had to revamp our OL as well. I’ve read that people think our OL is going to be decent, but I’ll wait to see it.

Rundown on Oregon’s Offenisve line here.

by MeanBobMean on Aug 4, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the issue with Offensive Lines, it's a team unit.

This isn’t true for any position except OL. On the OL you need to know what the other players on the line are going to do, and you need to know without talking to them at the line or calling audibles or anything. You have to trust that the guys to either side of you, and (to a lesser extent) down the line, are going to pick up the right guy. Talent is a part of that, but playing as a unit is a much bigger part.

That’s not true for any other position. DL like to know that the other DL and the LBs are going to fill their assignments, but it’s not necessary for them to perform at their best. Same with WR and CBs and RBs. Maybe for QBs and RBs they want to know that the OL is going to make all their blocks, but even then it is not as important for their own performance in a situation as it is for the OL to be able to rely on each other.

So even if every player is a senior, and all of them are all-american talents, if they haven’t played significant time together, and nothing in that bleacher report makes me think they have, they won’t have that unity and will be easy (or at least easier) to confuse (which Utah does very well) and take advantage of.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 5, 2009 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully

I think our D hasa real test in Oregon.

by MeanBobMean on Aug 5, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree. In fact, I'm going to do an entire new post about Oregon.

That way, we can continue this discussion in its own thread.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 5, 2009 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pac-10 refs

>>>never forget the PAC 10 refs are the biggest homers in football<<<

As an Oregon alumnus and Duck fan, I have to admit—-as pretty much every Pac-10 fan does—-that Pac-10 refs have been an embarrassment. (But why attribute it to being “homers”? Doesn’t simple incompetence explain things perfectly well? It’s what makes the world go round!) That said, I’ve seen a definite improvement in the past couple of years—-since that notorious call in the Oklahoma-Oregon game.

Go Utes! I’m rooting for you guys to go 11-1 this year. (But if you beat only BYU, it’ll still be a successful season in my eyes.)

by Al Orange on Aug 5, 2009 5:39 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That's an interesting question:

Didn’t we have PAC-10 officials at the Utah OSU game?

Do we then bring MWC officials to the Oregon game?

by MeanBobMean on Aug 5, 2009 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's how it SHOULD work.

In every conference except the PAC 10 the visiting team brings the refs. In the PAC 10 their refs work all PAC 10 home games, plus the away games where the home team allows it. I believe that some conferences do not allow PAC 10 refs at their home games as a reciprocity issue, but I’m not 100% sure of that.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 5, 2009 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could be incompetence rather than homerism.

Please accept my apologies. PAC 10 refs may be just stupid, not necessarily evil. ;-)

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Aug 5, 2009 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apology accepted!

No problem, dude. Let us go forth in perfect agreement that for whatever reason, Pac-10 refs suck.

To where have you been displaced? As a displaced, much-relocated Duck fan, I’m curious. Maybe we can get together to watch the game on Sept. 19.

by Al Orange on Aug 9, 2009 6:29 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arizona 2002.

I don’t think any Ute fan has gotten over that game.

The Pac-Ten refs pretty much stole a victory from Utah and sent their season into a tailspin.

Not that I complain too much, because had the Utes bounced back and finished with a winning record, McBride returns, Meyer probably goes somewhere else and who knows where the program stands today.

But the point stands. In a close game, on the road and against a Pac Ten team, the refs very well could turn out to be a huge factor.

:/

by JazzyUte on Aug 5, 2009 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"Utah has the best non-BCS talent in the country."
- Lou Holtz


"Wow. Wow. Wow."
- Daryl Johnston after Utah took a 21-0 lead on Alabama in the 2009 Sugar Bowl
Start posting about the Utes »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
SB Nation Survey + Chance to donate $500 to a charity of this community's choice
Pict0058_small
Pittsburgh's Spring Practices
Utes_small
Conference Expansion and the 32 Team League That Could Change College Football
Death-clutch-brock-lesnar-ufc100-tshirt_small
Utah opens season vs Pittsburgh September 2nd.
Uofu_small
Anyone feel disrespected?
Eb5_small
The class of 2010
Death-clutch-brock-lesnar-ufc100-tshirt_small
this is my predicted order of mwc teams for next year
Small
Okay, I'll take the job
Death-clutch-brock-lesnar-ufc100-tshirt_small
Utah has three bcs teams on schedule in 2010

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Michigan State's Kalin Lucas holds his left ankle as coach Tom Izzo checks on him after Lucas was injured in the first half of an NCAA second-round college basketball tournament game against Maryland in Spokane, Wash., Sunday, March 21, 2010. (AP Photo/Rajah Bose)

Tom Izzo: '85% Chance' Kalin Lucas Tore Left Achilles' Tendon

Duke's Brian Zoubek, left, and  Miles Plumlee congratulate Kyle Singler after defeating California 68-53 during an NCAA second-round college basketball game in Jacksonville, Fla., Sunday, March 21, 2010.   (AP Photo/Steve Helber)

Duke Controls Cal From Start To Finish, Advances To Sweet 16

Purdue's JaJuan Johnson celebrates with the Purdue mascot's hammer after Purdue beat Texas A&M 63-61 in overtime in an NCAA second-round college basketball game in Spokane, Wash., Sunday, March 21, 2010. (AP Photo/Rajah Bose) +1 updates

Purdue Rallies In Second Half, Edges Texas A&M In Overtime

More from SBNation.com >


Official Partner of CBS Sports