In Graham Watson's world, TCU had a better decade than Utah

by JazzyUte on Jan 21, 2010 6:06 PM MST in Football Comment 14 comments

More irrational goodness from the keyboard of Graham Watson!

Yesterday she ranked the best non-BCS teams of the decade and today she ranked the best non-BCS programs of the decade.

Her number one I have no issue with. Prior to this season, you could have made a claim Utah had an overall better decade than the Broncos. Not anymore.

But TCU over Utah? Are you f'n serious?

Her reasoning?

They've produced one undefeated regular season. Actually not bad. Except Utah, in the same span, produced two undefeated seasons. That's not just prior to their bowl game - that's overall. They also did something TCU failed to do in the Fiesta Bowl: they won a BCS bowl game - twice!

The Frogs? Sure, they've strung together a bunch of really good seasons. But they haven't tasted greatness yet. The Utes have done it twice.

For that, I see no rational reason to put them over Utah.

Am I just bitter? Na...

Poll

Who had the better decade?

TCU! I mean, losing to BSU in the BCS is sooo much better than winning two BCS bowl games!

7 votes

Utah! How the hell is this even up for debate?

179 votes

186 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 14 comments |

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Comments

Jazzman, I know it's a brutal news cycle

but you’re putting way too much stock into what Watson says.

She’s already displayed her, to put it mildly, “questionable” judgment, and it’s silly to be upset by it.

St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
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by BoylenOver on Jan 21, 2010 6:47 PM MST reply actions

I AM PISSED, DAMN YOU!

Well not really. But the basketball team sucks and football is dead.

I’m bored. :/

by JazzyUte on Jan 21, 2010 9:27 PM MST up reply actions

She may not have articulated a very good reason, but TCU over Utah is defensible.

During the 2000’s TCU’s record was 95–26 (.766); Utah’s was 86–30 (.741).

TCU won 4 conference championships—2 co-conference championships (2000 WAC, 2002 C-USA) and 2 outright conference championships (2005 & 2009 MWC); Utah had 3 outright conference championships (2003, 2004, & 2008).

TCU had one losing season (2004); Utah had two (2000 & 2002).

TCU had seven 10+ win seasons (2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, & 2009); Utah had four (2003, 2004, 2008, & 2009).

So do two undefeated seasons with BCS bowl wins trump these other considerations? Arguably yes, but it’s not objectively clear that Utah had a better decade than TCU.

by Ute in DC on Jan 21, 2010 11:23 PM MST reply actions

See, I don't think one can argue they trump what Utah has done.

In that regard, then BYU is a better program from 2005-2009.

I do not believe this.

TCU has been good. They have not been great. Utah has been a mix of good & great.

by JazzyUte on Jan 21, 2010 11:40 PM MST up reply actions

It’s not just Graham Watson. I saw a list on ESPN.com of the best programs of the decade for all of college football, TCU was on the list, Utah was not.

here’s a link if you want to see..
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/rank?versionId=1&listId=502

What was so great about TCU that lands them on the list?

by utahmanami on Jan 22, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions

the only thing i can come up with is bowl games have zero significance to ESPN

by utahmanami on Jan 22, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions

Jazzy, as a Ute I would pick Utah's decade over TCU's.

That said, TCU has had consistently good years for all but one of the last 10. Utah has had a couple of bad years (2000 and 2002), plus a couple of average years (2001, 2005, 2006), a couple of good years (2003, 2007, 2009) and a couple of great years (2004, 2008). I prefer to reach greatness, even if it requires a sacrifice of a couple of good years. Graham Watson (moron that she is) appears to prefer consistent goodness like TCU and BYU.

Again, I prefer what Utah has done, but there’s at least an argument that consistently being good is “better”.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Jan 22, 2010 11:13 AM MST reply actions

They consistently choke, too

That is the difference between good and great.

by MeanBobMean on Jan 22, 2010 8:34 PM MST up reply actions

i know..there is just no way to convince me why anyone would pick TCU over utah, it’s too ridiculous nicolas

by utahmanami on Jan 23, 2010 9:06 AM MST up reply actions

I get that, displaced.

I’m not saying TCU had a bad decade. They had a very good one.

However, they also haven’t sniffed the success Utah has. Going undefeated twice in a decade is something only a handful of programs can say in the modern era. It just doesn’t happen much. TCU hasn’t done it. Ever. And they certainly didn’t produce an undefeated season last decade.

Yeah, their resume is great and they deserve mention. But is it quality or quantity here?

I think Utah has a far better quality about their wins than TCU does. Sure, they’ve produced more ten-win seasons and been more consistent at being good. However, how much of that supplements for their inability to be great? We already know Utah has touched greatness the last decade (twice). TCU came close (once) and blew it.

That’s not to take anything away from what the Frogs have done. But it’s hard to think they had a better decade when they have yet to win a BCS bowl game. Let alone do it twice.

I guess had ’08 not happened for Utah, I would be more inclined to give them an edge. But 2008 did happen.

by JazzyUte on Jan 24, 2010 3:00 PM MST up reply actions

Jazzy, I'm on your side.

I have the same opinion of the two programs as you do. I’d pick Utah’s decade every single time over TCU’s decade. No question. But the one argument TCU has in their favor is this one:

TCU has 8 10-win seasons in the past 10 years, 1 average season (6-6) and only 1 losing season.
Utah has 4 10-win seasons in the past 10 years, 2 losing seasons, and 4 average seasons (8-4 in 2001, 7-5 in 2005, 8-5 in 2006, 9-4 in 2007). Again, maybe Graham prefers consistently good than great some years, good some years, and average some years. I prefer being Utah to being TCU, but it’s not inconceivable that someone could feel differently.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Jan 25, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions

i'll take utah's 19 aq bcs wins over everyone on the list.

if you count even the aq bcs teams ooc schedule that is still more wins than 80% of them. i’m certainly not counting wins over there own conference rivals. just ooc.

i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"

by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 23, 2010 12:59 PM MST reply actions

I wouldn't trade

From a fan perspective I doubt you would find a single Utah fan willing to trade. I bet you could find TCU fans willing to trade. That really isn’t knocking TCU. They are a great team. But as a fan, it counts a lot more to win the big ones.
You know the saying that it is better to have loved and lost than to never haved loved at all. Well Utah has loved twice. TCU doesn’t know what love is. They have to be satisfied that they have had more times where they “really liked”.

by daedalus17 on Jan 26, 2010 10:15 AM MST reply actions

i have an interesting fanpost on the texas blog about upcoming expansions.

two people have commented on if missouri leaves they would not mind having utah in the big 12. i rather do that then goto the pac-ten.

i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"

by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 26, 2010 3:16 PM MST up reply actions

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