Where there is smoke - Utah to the Pac Ten?
by JazzyUte on Feb 8, 2010 10:59 PM MST
in Football
40 comments
Oh the joys of football offseason! As it seems every year, a rumor here and there is kicked around that the Pac Ten might be making a move on the expansion front. Of course, the months pass and nothing eventful happens.
Is this different?
Who the hell knows. What I do know is that for the last 24 hours, rumors have kicked in that the Pac Ten is ready to pull the trigger on expansion and Utah will be included. This could happen as early as this week. Or not. That's the beauty of rumors - they're generally open-ended.
But one can't deny there are rumblings. Not just from the local press (KTVX tonight talked about the possibility), but even California papers are starting to report on the possibility.
This from the San Jose Mercury News:
Does that mean Scott is considering expansion?
"We’re looking at it very seriously. It wasn’t something identified for me by the presidents when I took the job. But it’s very natural as you look at the value of the conference from a media standpoint. If we were ever going to look at expansion, this would be the logical time" (because negotiations for a new TV deal will begin next year).
* I took that as an indication that Scott is more serious about expansion than he was three or six months ago.
"No, I think I’ve been consistent on that subject."
Emphasis mine.
It's not hard to put two and two together on this one, folks. They're seriously looking at the possibility of expansion and if they were to ever expand, this would be the logical time.
Not a year from now. Or even a month from now. But today.
Personally, I doubt we'll hear anything this week. Or next week. Or a month from now. It'll happen one day (I believe). Not this year, though and maybe not next year.
But for now, it seems like their commissioner is open to the idea. And compared to the last guy, that's a huge step in the right direction.
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If they want Utah, now is the time.
Getting Utah before the 2011 season would be huge. If Utah was in the Pac-10 during the 2011 season the MWC would not be able to use Utah’s statistics in their BCS evaluation. I’m sure Scott is thinking about preserving their western power as well.
I think now is the time and I’m expecting something this offseason.
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by Michael Rueckert on Feb 9, 2010 12:05 AM MST reply actions
I hope they take Boise State and Utah
And I hope those two play for the conference championship for twenty years straight.
Won't happen Bob.
BSU doesn’t come close when it comes to academic standards. 20 years….HAH!!! I’d be surprised if either could win more than 2 or 3 conference games a year. Maybe Utah and BYU, but then that’d be like adding 2 more WSU teams to the conference and water it down too much.
Hold on a second now...
Utah is consistently alright. Occasionally exceptional.
Any game with BYU is a huge hurdle.
Washington State sucks royal. Send the third teamers out there just to give Masoli a week to study.
True this.
But we might just glance at BYU’s recent history in bowl games vs. the Pac-10…
I don’t think they’re bad teams, but I do agree that their records are rather inflated compared to teams of equal skill who play in competitive conferences.
I doubt BYU is an option
All the pac X schools are secular research institutions, I don’t think some members (ie Cal, Stanford, UCLA) would welcome BYU. I could see the Pac make a run at Colorado though
we could always play byu in our non conferecne schedule like georgia and geogia tech do.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Feb 10, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
No dog in this fight
but it seems really weird to anyone west of the Rockies to see Pac-10 fans look down on the top half of the Mountain West. It isn’t CUSA puffing out it’s chest and naysaying the Big 12, but it isn’t that far off. There is plenty of on-field, head-to-head evidence that the top of the Mountain West is consistently better than most of the Pac-10, year after year.
As for the specific programs in question, I know at least one Pac-10 team Boise State would beat like a drum. How about you, Oregon fan?
by GwinnettGamecock on Feb 9, 2010 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
I should think
that if they were really going after Utah they’d also be going after BYU. The Pac-10 is all about paired of regional rivals.
Washington-Washington State (Its really more heated between Washington and Oregon…)
Oregon-Oregon State
Cal-Stanford
USC-UCLA
Arizona-Arizona State
Utah-BYU?
Good luck ripping the powers in the MWC away from them though…
Yeah right...
If the Pac 10 wanted them, they’d go in a heartbeat. MWC is weak. The nation knows it, the teams within the conference know it. If they were offered, they’d leave.
Indeed.
Yet I think that foise state wouldn’t bite on a bid from the Pac.
They like going 13-0 against Jefferson high school all year and still getting a bid to the fiesta bowl.
Same kinda gig for BYU. They dominate every conference meeting. But they probably couldn’t do that in the Pac-10.
Still, if they’re offered they’d probably bite because of the implied national TV deal. Not necessarily because of the respect that could be gained alone. BYU and Utah receive their due love I think.
the MWC is not weak
TCU, Utah, and BYU are as good as any top three in a league with a step behind the SEC. And of course they would leave to join the Pac-10 better overall competition and a much better shot to make the BCS title game.
The in-state rivalry was important 30 years ago . . .
. . . the last time the PAC 10 expanded. It is significantly less so now. TV sets rule expansion talk, and the addition of BYU/Utah doesn’t make as much financial sense as Utah/Colorado or even Utah/Colorado State.
Not to mention the political/social/academic questions that the PAC 10 have with BYU.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Feb 9, 2010 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
Well sure.
But the primary goal of what would be the expansion of the Pac-10 is not academic enhancement.
Its about increasing athletic power and using that to make money, right?
BYU and Utah are some pretty apt when it comes to athletics, no?
The Primary Goal is TV Revenue $$$$
So the only thing that brings this into play is adding 2 television markets, Utah = Salt Lake and Colorado = Denver.
I think that the Pac-10 would be interested in TCU if not for the distance factor. This would be a completely new market and help with recruiting, but it’s just too far to be realistic.
BYU is good at athletics but if Utah’s already in, it’d be overkill.
"No one ever rises to low expectations." - Chip Kelly Head Coach at the Univ. of Oregon.
by SouthOfTheBorderDuck on Feb 9, 2010 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
Social questions?
So the Pac-10 has officially endorsed atheism as part of the conference philosophy? Interesting. I guess the games with Notre Dame will be going by the wayside.
Academics will have next to nothing to do with expansion. From the other side of the country, Stanford and Cal are really good, UCLA slightly less so, Arizona State is a Simpsons punchline but has hot girls, and the rest are a jumble into which BYU will settle nicely.
The Pac-10 and Big Ten will both target whichever schools they believe will make them the most money.
by GwinnettGamecock on Feb 9, 2010 1:32 PM MST up reply actions
Gwinnett, from the other side of the country you may think so, but you'd be wrong.
The PAC 10 will take BYU as a last resort, but they don’t want a university with no graduate programs to speak of and the extremely conservative bent of BYU. Trust me. It’s generally common knowledge around these parts (even among BYU fans) that the PAC 10 doesn’t want BYU for a variety of reasons, none involving athletics. Stanford and Cal have made their stance on that issue very clear.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
If Stanford and Cal are against it
it is probably in everyone’s best interest to take the other side. I doubt the Cal admin is as leftwing as the school’s reputation, but it wouldn’t hurt to have someone to offset Berkley. Course, I’m probably a much bigger fan of diversity than most academics, especially those likely to run Cal and Stanford, so I wouldn’t expect them to agree.
Ideally, I’d like to see:
Utah and Colorado → Pac-10
Missouri→ Big Ten
BYU and TCU→ Big 12
by GwinnettGamecock on Feb 10, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Honestly, I wouldn’t be too surprised if this is the way things go.
Perhaps Arkansas to the BigXII instead, maybe TCU to the SEC? or another Fla. School?
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Feb 12, 2010 12:16 AM MST up reply actions
TCU
Will not go to teh SEC, pleanty of folks there already think Arkansas is a stretch. They play in their yard only.
Yeah but...
Utah State? In a Pac12? No, no, no. Most of the teams in the WAC and MountainWest want into the Pac12 when it happens but very few really have a chance. Utah and BYU have been odds on favs since the the Pac10 was rebuffed by Texas and Colorado.
The “I should think” message where Utah has a ?. Given the historic combinations of U of Where ever and Where ever State, the obvious Utah combo would seem to be Utah and Utah State. I thought that was what was being implied intead of BYU-Utah.
I don't think anyone is implying USU.
USU isn’t going to the pac 10, and no one here is suggesting they will.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
Utah/Colorado
If they Pac-10 is going to be a stickler for their requirements of a research schools. Plus Utah and CU is basically the same thing as Wazzu and WSU in terms of distance.
Not Going to Happen
I honestly don’t believe there is much to this rumor again. Why would they expand? The money will always stay in the conference. I listened to this argument on a radio station in Oakland a few months ago. The fact of the matter is that no teams or pairing make that much sense. If they were to expand, why wouldn’t they go to 16 like some of the other “major” conferences have done. The only team that makes sense is Utah. Who would be the “other” team? Colorado already has a good gig and their natural rivalries. Colorado sucks in all sports and doesn’t look to be competetive for a long time even with all the revenue they receive already from their affiliation. Who else? BYU won’t play sports on Sunday. Who else? Why grow in the Pac 10? The money doesn’t make sense. I love Utah and would enjoy the ride. Hope it happens but don’t like the emotional ride.
Kameron
The money makes sense if they can get 12 teams and a CC game . . .
. . . not to mention two new markets for their new TV deal. CU boulder still has an attendance of close to 50k despite 5 years of losing seasons. They have fans. Plus the CC game is a huge money maker in terms of TV. I’m not saying this is happening, but it’s not as far-fetched as it sounds.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
Money
and if every other league gets to 12 teams especially the Big 10 they will follow. This is not the same Pitt to Big 10 rumor that was said to be a done deal. Pac-10 is said to want to expand and the logical choice is Utah and CU.
Well . . .
Utah brings exposure teh PAC-10has not been getting though. It’s a cinderella story they desperately need to get so marketability again.
Sure it could happen. It probably should, too.
It all hinges on the potential TV deal that the Pac 10 can negotiate. Utah and Colorado make perfect sense, not only for the media markets that both offer to increase the value of a TV package, as well as their graduate programs, but a pac 12 is more likely to get 2 teams into the BCS. A properly negotiated TV deal is much bigger than the additional payout a 2nd BCS team would bring to the conference, but it’s still significant. for for less important reasons.
Thanks for worrying about whether or not Utah and Colorado would be competitive; they’ll be just fine in the Pac 10. Colorado football might not be playing that well right now, but they’ve got a long history. They could almost assuredly beat WSU. Utah’s achievements speak for themselves. Also, Colorado does not suck in all sports. Their ski team is one of the best in the country. Colorado would probably be willing to listen to any deal that (a) gets them more money and (b) frees them from a league that is ruled politically by Texas.
BYU doesn’t play on Sundays, and they lack graduate programs, so the Pac 10 is very unlikely to want them. Period. Hopefully the notion of BYU-to-the-Pac-10 will die soon and get off the message boards. It’s a non-starter. Also, the regional pairing is an antiquated notion that does not maximize media opportunities. If the Pac 10 wants to add Utah in an expansion, which I bet it almost certainly does, it doesn’t want BYU.
Utah and CU can continue to play BYU and Nebraska as OOC opponents. My personal impression is that Colorado would not lose any sleep over stopping their Nebraska “rivalry,” but if they want to keep at it, go for it. USC and Notre Dame play an OOC series, and it works just fine for them.
Schools like WSU might not be added if they weren’t already in the league, but because the Pac 10 has an opportunity to expand, the leagues want to try to add big, western schools with decent graduate programs and media markets. Utah and CU make perfect sense in the effort to economically “keep up with the Joneses,” aka Big 10/11 and the SEC.
WSU
I understand why you guys are talking about all these schools being more competitive than WSU right now. However, I get the feeling you think this has and always will be the case. Excluding this year, can you name the last school to win the Pac-10 not named USC? It’s rough in Pullman right now but they will be back.
by Wazzu Willy on Feb 10, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
the pac-ten is going to go to 12 teams just like the big east and big 10 will do.
the writing is on the wall. the sec has won the last 4 ncg’s. their formula has proven to work. just to be competitve the pac-ten, big ten and big east will have to have cg’s. it just comes down to who the pac-ten invites. i’ve been looking at other people’s message boards and even most of the pac-ten fans want utah and colorado. at least will get to play usc just about every year.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Feb 10, 2010 12:06 PM MST reply actions
Even if the Big East is not scavenged again,
I don’t see any realistic targets that can enhance their football standing. Longterm, I think the conference is fighting a losing battle to stay in the BCS.
by GwinnettGamecock on Feb 10, 2010 12:42 PM MST reply actions
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