Utah (3-3) @ Cal (3-3)
Will Utah win its first ever Pac-12 game? Will Cal?
Both the Utes and Golden Bears enter Saturday's game with identical records across the board - 3-3 overall and 0-3 in conference play. The winner will inch closer to bowl eligibility, while the loser will, for a week at least, be stuck winless in the Pac-12.
If there is a difference, though, it's how they enter this game. Utah is fresh off a potentially season-saving victory at Pittsburgh, while Cal enters nursing a three-game slump and a humiliating defeat to instate rival USC last Thursday.
This is very much a must-win if the Golden Bears are going to turn their season around. It's hard to imagine they'll bounce back from an 0-4 conference hole, especially with road games still remaining against UCLA (nowhere near unbeatable, but improved), Stanford (not going to happen in a million years) and Arizona State (still a tough and talented team, even if they occasionally like to shoot themselves in the foot).
They need this one. That scares me a bit because I hate facing a team when their backs are against the wall. It's like they channel their inner Dynasty and claw and pull anything that hangs just to win.
They're going to be angry and fired up for this one because their season hinges on it. The players know it, Jeff Tedford knows it and I'm sure our good friends over at California Golden Blogs know it.
Cal can't lose.
Of course, this game is also important to the Utes. After all, they're still holding a giant goose egg in their new conference and I'm sure the coaches and players are all dying for that first official victory. It would also suggest the Utes are capable of a very strong finish and not merely content with just bowl eligibility.
Saturday for Utah might not be the difference between five or six wins, but it very well could be the difference between six or seven or even eight and not hoping for that final sixth win well into November.
So, how do the Utes win Saturday?
Well for starters, it would be nice if they held on to the ball like they did this past weekend. Zero turnovers is a big reason Utah won Saturday and they'll need a similar performance this weekend against Cal if they're going to leave the Bay Area above .500.
It really is that simple. In all three of Utah's wins, two of which came on the road, they secured the ball. In the Utes' three losses, specifically their last two, they failed to do just that.
No turnovers and I see no reason why Utah won't be in the position, down the stretch, to possibly pull out the win.
The Golden Bears should know this all too well. Saturday, in their 30-9 loss to SC, Cal lost four fumbles and Zach Maynard threw three interceptions. You're not going compete very well, let alone win, with numbers like that.
It held back an offense that statistically went toe-to-toe with the Trojans. In fact, they finished with more total yards, had just as many first downs and still were never really in the game - falling behind 23-0 early in the third quarter.
That's Utah's challenge. Cal does boast a fairly decent offense, even with all their errors. It's much more impressive and explosive than the Utes', though that's not saying much, and it's clear, especially the past two games, they'll sink or swim with it.
They do, after all, still average 30 points and 436 yards per game, which puts them in the upper-half of the conference. Utah, obviously, is woefully stuck at the bottom in both categories.
Where the Utes succeed, though, is on the defensive end. Even with a dismal offensive performance against Pitt, Utah still managed to control much of the game solely due to their strong defense. It's remarkable how well the defense holds its own when the offense isn't coughing up the ball on every drive.
The difference, though, is that Utah keyed in on Ray Graham, the explosive Panther running back and forced Pittsburgh into a pass-oriented offense, which they obviously weren't prepared for Saturday.
Cal is a much more balanced team. Whereas Pitt is in the bottom of the Big East in passing yards and the top of the conference in rushing yards per game, the Golden Bears are ranked similarly toward the middle in the Pac-12 in both those statistics.
In fact, Isi Sofele, Cal's junior tailback from Salt Lake City's Cottonwood High School, ranks sixth in the conference in rushing yards per game. While Maynard is at seventh in the conference in passing yards per game.
Like I said, a very balanced attack that will be far more diverse than what Utah saw last week.
Because of this, the defense is probably going to bend a bit more this weekend than they did last. Even though Pitt managed 14 points, both scores came on special teams mistakes by the Utes, so Utah's defense actually held the Panthers' offense scoreless. I don't think that will be the case this weekend. Cal is going to score. Maybe not a lot of points, but enough where if Utah is going to compete in this one, they'll need more than just field goals.
That means a far better performance in the red zone than what we saw against Pitt. The Utes could have really put that game away Saturday far earlier than they did had they managed even two red zone touchdowns. But because they didn't, even with a putrid offensive performance, the Panthers still managed to hang around for far longer than they should have.
In fact, Utah ranks third to last in red zone offense nationally. Only Western Kentucky and North Texas are worse than the Utes.
If that doesn't change, the Utes probably aren't going to win this week, or next week or many games at all this season. You can't win on field goals alone, at least not always, and sooner or later, they're going to have to put together a drive that stretches the length of the field and ends with a red zone touchdown.
Will they do it this week?
Utah wins if...The offense, led by Jon Hays, doesn't turn the ball over and begins putting together sustained drives. Granted, they did manage to kill it in the TOP last week (37:59 to 22:01), but field goals just aren't going to cut it. This offense needs to start coming away with more than three points on their scoring drives.
Cal wins if...They force the Utes into turnovers. Utah doesn't have the offense to overcome a bad turnover situation. Even one or two could be the difference in this one.
What should happen...I don't know. I certainly feel better about this game than I did a week ago, but there are still some serious problems with this Utah team. The offensive line is sketchy, the offense still can't find any groove and though John White is definitely a great surprise, you get the sense this team is leaning too much on the defense. Against equally bad offensive teams, or one-dimensional offensive teams, you can get away with it. Against teams like Cal, who are decent enough on the offensive end, it might eventually cost you. So, again, I really don't know what to expect. I'm taking the chicken's way out. No prediction this week.
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I know one thing. Cals QB is not good..
U$C destroyed cal and the qb play from cal was awful. i say we stack the box and let this guy try to beat us. he has a bad throwing motion. our defense can win keep us in the game and as long as the offens does not have more than 1 or 2 turnoves we should win this game. the special teams have to play much better too. anybody know how many points we have allowed by mistakes by ST’s?
Public Enemy #1 and enjoying every minute of it. Tapology.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Oct 16, 2011 10:51 PM MDT reply actions
Yeah...he was pretty bad against Oregon too.
I think that’s what the coaches will do. The gameplan probably won’t be much different defensively than it was last week – let them beat you through the air.
The difference? As bad as he is at times, he’s way better than anything Pitt lined up under center Saturday.
by JazzyUte on Oct 16, 2011 10:54 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
i say we stack the box and let this guy try to beat us.
Heh. You and every other team we play this year.
Being an Old Blue means never accepting success.
We feel your pain
In fact, Utah ranks third to last in red zone offense nationally. Only Western Kentucky and North Texas are worse than the Utes.
Cal’s red zone offense was the main criticism of the team before Maynard went colorblind and started throwing to the red and gold guys last week. We’ve had 3TDs and 6 field goals in 12 trips over the last three games.
"Some people watch adult videos on their computer - I go to YouTube and watch Jahvid Best highlight clips. That’s what gets me going."- Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions head coach
Don't sleep on the Bears passing attack
Cal is averaging almost 300 yards per game. Keenan Allen leads the conference in reception yards and is second to Robert Woods in receptions.
Utah’s pass d is going to have a big test.
Unless he can stop throwing INT's and telegraphing his passes i say we stack the box.
Public Enemy #1 and enjoying every minute of it. Tapology.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Oct 16, 2011 11:15 PM MDT up reply actions
d. philosophy
Utah will always try to stop the run first. The problem is Utah hasn’t had a good pass defense in a couple of seasons.
Utah’s CBs, Conroy 6’0" and Lacy 5’9", will be giving up a lot of height to big physical receivers that can go up and get jump balls. Both Allen and Marvin Jones are listed at 6’ 3". Not a good match up for the Utes.
by UteinBrooklyn on Oct 16, 2011 11:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Oddly enough, Utah has the third best pass defense in the Pac-12...
I’m sure a lot of that is because of Pitt’s awful performance Saturday, but even so, the Utes were in the top-half of the league.
I’m not nearly as concerned about Maynard as I was Barkley or Osweiler. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good QB, but as wolfman said, he makes a lot of mistakes and has had two pretty bad games in a row.
Hope we make it three.
Yeah he his definitely not in Barkley’s league. I hope the line can put as much pressure on Maynard as they did against Pitt. Get him uncomfortable and a half step out of rhythm. That will help the cause.
I still don’ t worry about the defense as much as I’m worried about the offense… and now special teams has me second guessing them too.
by UteinBrooklyn on Oct 17, 2011 12:14 AM MDT up reply actions
Don't overvalue
Those inches that receivers have on their assigned DBs. They tend to be shorter; to add the mobility they need to keep up. Darelle Revis is 5’11".
by Joseph Silverzweig on Oct 18, 2011 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Offense needs to score TDs
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Utah held Pitt to 120 total yards, but still could have lost the game with a couple of minutes left. Is that possible?
Utes have to score in the red zone. FGs just keep other teams hanging around.
It was only possible due to awful special teams...
Offense controlled the game, just didn’t finish drives. Negate the awful special teams play in the first quarter and Utah wins by a far more comfortable margin and the Panthers aren’t in it with a couple minutes left.
But you’re right. We need to score more. I mentioned in my preview that Cal’s offense is a bit more balanced and will test the defense far more than Pitt. I expect the defense to continue playing well, but the offense has to score at least two red zone touchdowns!
A few things to take into mind about the offense.
First the travel to the east coast and the early game start. There’s a reason it was a worry. There’s a reason that the coaching staff changed their routine this year to deal with it.
Jon Hays was starting his second game. He was doing so without the teams #1 WR as DeVonte Christopher didn’t even make the trip.
Hays also got blitzed more in this game, than he will the entire rest of the season. I’m not sure if there were less than 5 plays that Pitt didn’t blitz.
With all that said, the offense still moved the ball decently. They didn’t finish the drives, which yes, is a big concern, but all things taken into account, the offense wasn’t as terrible as many want to make it out to. Utah put together drives of 14 plays, 12 plays, and 9 plays 3 different times. They had 3 drives that were greater than 5 minutes, and they dominated time of possession 38 minutes to 22.
The only reason this game was “close” and we’re not talking about a blowout is because we brought our “Short Yellow Bus” special teams to the game.
Short Yellow Bus
Do you think John Cullen is the driver of the special teams “Short Yellow Bus”? He has also done some dumb things that almost cost us the game, both this week and previous weeks.
Weather was a factor as well
I was at the game and the wind was crazy! There were several times when the flags from the goalposts were both blowing towards the 50 yard line.
I think Utah kept the offense conservative 1) because they wanted to get some confidence in holding onto the ball and 2) the weather would have made it even more unpredictable and a greater chance to turn the ball over.
Hays also got blitzed more in this game than he will the entire rest of the season.
Don’t be too sure. The Pitt game wasn’t a lesson in how to beat Utah’s D, but Utah’s offense only managed 250 yards. If I were an opposing DC, until Hays shows an inkling of ability to recognize and overcome a blitz, I would send the rush almost every time as well. And no, a lucky tip to the receiver for a TD doesn’t count as an effective blitz counter.
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
until Hays shows an inkling of ability to recognize and overcome a blitz, I would send the rush almost every time
This sounds like a dream come true for Cal defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast.
"Some people watch adult videos on their computer - I go to YouTube and watch Jahvid Best highlight clips. That’s what gets me going."- Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions head coach
by Berkelium97 on Oct 17, 2011 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I was really impressed
With Hays’ ability to keep making plays and throws even when he knew he was going to get thrashed. He got flattened on that touchdown pass, but threw it anyway (not that it was exactly the best pass ever).
by Joseph Silverzweig on Oct 18, 2011 8:46 AM MDT up reply actions
I really like his attitude
He plays with a chip on his shoulder, a little bit of swagger and a this sort of blue collar mentality we haven’t seen in QB at Utah in as long as I can remember.
Flashing the “U” to the crowd in the ASU game after his run where he stiff armed the guy earned him a place in my good graces.
Oh, I fully agree the guy has some serious heart
and he definitely isn’t scared of the pressure. I would just like to see him recognize an obvious blitz and make the defense pay for being overaggressive now and then.
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
I think he'll get there
This coaching staff is known for developing players. I would just rather it happen sooner than later.
Agreed on both points
But he can be taught how to read defenses. Teaching heart and desire is much more difficult.
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Go easy
At least on the last interception, Heaps actually thought about attempting to tackle the guy . . .
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
well written jazzy...
being 3rd to last in the nation in anything is pretty bad, but being that it is directly related to putting points on the scoreboard, you gotta figure that will be a huge emphasis this week as was the ball security was last week. hopefully we see similar improvements in this issue. Any updates on DeVonte? Also with Rodgers out I guess we should expect to see more of Jake Murphy & Kendrick Moeai, anxious to see how those guys do.
Pitt Game
I was at the Pitt game and I was very impressed by how the Utes overcame adversity with being down 14-3 early. They showed something they didn’t have in their losses to Arizona St. and Washington. I really hope the Utes can bounce back and take this win from Cal. It looks to me that Jon Hayes is getting comfortable with the offense. Chow just needs to continue to work with him and teach him. Sort of upset that no cheerleaders or the Ute mascot didn’t make the trip. Other than the Ute fans were out in full force! #utenation
by westvirginiautefan on Oct 17, 2011 7:32 AM MDT reply actions
I agree
I was very happy to see the Utes come back from down 14-3. I was worried the “losing mindset” might sink in and the game could get ugly. But they stuck it out and played hard the whole game.
I also agree that Jon Hayes is looking better. If he can get some time and set his feet, he has a pretty strong arm and can throw a good ball. Once he starts understanding the offense he should improve.
Thanks for representing
It was nice to hear the Ute fans making some noise now and then.
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
You could hear from the TV the Ute fans were pretty loud. Although not as loud as 1 of these 4 greatest moments EVER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTasrsOUQgU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2zY9NeEdWw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR5lN9W8fs0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8YwA_5CF8o
I miss those days. Man, what a WR corp we had, Man of Casteel,Downtown Freddie Brown, Bradon Godfrey, David Reed and Jereme Brooks
by PhuckthePhillies on Oct 17, 2011 4:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh doctor...
Those were the days… You could go on talking about all the players on that team… the Man of Casteel… The thing I will remember most about him is the Michigan game… Guy went “beast mode”… He was not going to lose that game and it showed in how he played. Sly… Koa… Rojo… the Zane’s… Smith… Paul the elder… and I’m leaving names out. That was a team with leadership, mental toughness, and attitude… The newbies need to find that… BJ needs to smack some of those boys around. I think IV is the only one I see with it. Dude is 185 lbs. wet and has bad intentions every time he hits the hole…
Thanks for posting… Ah, memories…
by BetterasIgetolder on Oct 17, 2011 8:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Anyone know of a web cast for this game?
I contacted KJZZ and they said that they did not have the rights so they can’t do it like they did for the MSU game. Apparently, due to our contract this year with the PAC, Cal has all of the rights to this game.
Only Home Games Broadcast on KJZZ will be streamed on UtahUtes.com
So that means the Oregon State game will likely be streamable (Since it’s a home game, and I seriously doubt anybody other than KJZZ gets it).
However there are always sites like vipstand.me, andfirstrowsports.tv where you would probably be able to find the stream.
I contacted KJZZ and CSN Bay Area
Both said that the game will not be streamed. KJZZ said that Cal has the rights so they couldn’t do it if they wanted to. The rep from CSN Bay Area said that it should be on Dish (channel 419) and Direct TV (channel 696) if you have the sports tier. Ironically even though it is Comcast Sports Net – Bay Area it is not on the Comcast sports tier if you are out of area but is on Direct TV and Dish.
We usually have a few Cal guys streaming the game online
I’ll try to remember to post the links to streams on gameday
"Some people watch adult videos on their computer - I go to YouTube and watch Jahvid Best highlight clips. That’s what gets me going."- Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions head coach
by Berkelium97 on Oct 17, 2011 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Block U wil have a Game Day Thread that you post them to
That way all of us will see it at the same spot
The U of U Athletics Facebook page says the following:
The University of Utah Athletics The chance for any more games on live video stream is very slim. Montana State was an exception to the rule because there were no other Pac-12 games that night. All streamed games must be done by the host school on a local broadcast and require a waiver from FOX, which doesn’t happen very often. Help me out fellow fans and pass this word along!
(Posted here.)
So it’s not very likely that we’ll have another game streamed by Utah this year.
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
any one else traveling for cal game? SF!
We have the boat down there for some first time “boat gating” and it should be a party! Lemme know if your going us utes can party! Also we have 2 extra tickets to someone in need
by aUTmanAMi on Oct 17, 2011 10:07 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Cal Bears
It was a push for me on learning more about this year’s Utah team.
On the positive side our FG kicker did a good job and was the difference maker between winning/losing. Also we were able to bounce back from a 14-3 deficit, which sheds some light on the fighting spirit of a team.
On the downside, we had a ANOTHER punt block (FOR A TD!!) on top of the three from last year. I get tired of reading of how our team addressed certain issues like special teams/penalties and they come back to bite us again in the can. Despite vowing to clean up the penalties, we committed more infractions during the Pitt game than we had in prior games. Some of the penalties like the one on Kreuger for the love tap on Sunseri and on Martinez for a late hit out of bounds (on continuation/momentum) I can live with, but Cullen’s unsportsmanlike and false starts are getting REAL OLD.
We were fortunate and fortuitous to win the Pitt game. Our lone offensive TD was gift from heaven. Our passing game if you can call it that isn’t very good and the defense has to carry us. Our O-line doesn’t give Hays enough time so it is not all on him. Just like the last game, my expectations against Cal is that we play a turnover free game (btw I consider a blocked punt as a turnover) and that our defense rises to the occasion again. I am not sure if the Pitt coaches watched Price and Osweiller torch our D with crossing and down the seam routes, but I am hoping the improvement against Pitt was because our D addressed those issues. I pray for a miracle that Jon Hays somehow becomes Utah’s version of Earl Morrall.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Oct 17, 2011 11:03 AM MDT reply actions
Fortunate and Fortuitous??? Hardly
Utah was not fortunate or fortuitous to win that game. They dominated the game. Pitt was fortunate and fortuitous for it to be a close game.
Don’t let the score fool you, this was a dominating performance by Utah aided by five terribly special teams plays (The Kickoff Return, the Punt Block, Mo Lee getting knocked into the end zone with the ball, Greg Bird knocking the ball from the 11 into the end zone, and the muffed snap).
Yes Utah could have lost that game, and it was in jeopardy late, but Utah wasn’t fortunate, or fortuituous to win this game, if anything they were unfortunate not to have put it away earlier
You and I disagree on football.
John White ran well and our defense was strong. Coleman Peterson did very well also.
But we were lucky to win, because our defense pitched a shutout. Teams that require defense’s to win games don’t win very often.
As for our lone offensive TD, if we have another one like that against Cal, I will eat my shoe.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Oct 17, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
You are right we disagree.
I’m firmly in the Defense wins championships mindset of football. Would it be nice to have some more offensive production? Absolutely, relying on defenses to win is not a bad thing.
Whitt would be thrilled if the rest of the games came down to the same storyline as this game. Dominate the run game. Dominate the Defense. Win the game.
The only reason the Defense “had to win the game” was because the Special Teams kept wetting the bed. The Offense did it’s job, and honestly, other than converting 1 or maybe 2 of those field goals into TD’s, if you are expecting anymore out of this offense, you are expecting too much. Especially when you consider we are without our #1 QB, we were without our #1 WR, and our best TE went down early in the game.
We really disagree
Our offense did ‘A’ job. I don’t consider 1st and 10 on the twelve after the Sunseri fumble and coming away with no points doing a job. I don’t think I am expecting too much that we at least get three points out of that series. 7 sacks and 4 batted down passes? I also don’t consider that doing a job.
As for Wynn and our #1 Wideout being out, I realize this REALLY hurts. Especially at QB where the drop off in talent and ability is huge. When I saw Hays come out in the second half against UW and Wynn go out briefly against the tds, I thought well we are in big trouble. How do you want me to respond to this? It is not MY expectations to wish for more offensive productivity, it is fact and reality. What is important is that to win consistently, we are probably going to have to score at least 20+ points a game to win the majority of the remaining games. This offense has not done this since the tds game.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Oct 17, 2011 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
You are right, The offense needs about 20 points per game.
They were only 4 short of it this week, and that’s without any short field. I never said the Offense played a perfect game. Lord knows there were missed opportunities, the 1st and 10 at the twelve drive being a prime example.
But as I said short of turning one of the Field goals into a TD, you really can’t expect more from the offense. That’s what we’re going to get, and that is how this team has been built ever since losing Wynn. This team was never going to be a high scoring 55 points in a game offense. Even with Wynn in the lineup, that is of course, they are given a lot of short fields.
This offense is a grind it out, control the ball, own the time of possession team, 150-200 yards in the air, and 125-150 yards on the ground, just don’t lose it, so our defense can win it, offense.
We do agree on one thing, the goal for the offense should be about 20 points. Which is why I said, short of turning one of the figgies into a TD, this offense did what it is built to do. That one TD == 20 points.
We agree on something else
And that we are both strong Utah fans!
When I was watching the Utah – UW game in L.A. with other Utah alumni, I really thought we could play well and ultimately win. Our play in the first half except for the two turnovers, the stupid penalties that led to UW FG before half was strong.
I called my brother at halftime and told him I can’t wait for the second half to start because we have unfinished busniess. When Hays (#9) came out, I thought what in the heck is going on. Nobody in the room noticed that EWynn was sitting and neither did the stupid announcers. They kept saying Wynn for at least 2 series. Well, it is water under the bridge now, but I was crushed when we lost our most key player. I thought, there goes our season.
I have slightly recovered since. No Low expectations helped get me through the ASU game with the same Utah friends, and I stuck around for the whole game instead of leaving after trailing in the UW and not going for it on 4th and 3. The big W against gave me some hope.
All I can say is Go Utah against Cal! Let’s play a clean, turnover free and limit our stupid penalties game.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Oct 17, 2011 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions
now it's my turn
now it’s my turn to disagree.
We most certainly do NOT require 20+ points per game to bag Ws.
As is the case with all defensively-solid teams, you only require enough points to get you ahead. Then your defense can close the door.
If you’re telling me that Utah needs 20+ points per game to win from here on out, with the A+ defense they have… no way.
Certainly not with this defense. And certainly not against teams like UCLA, Ore State, Washington State, Arizona and Colorado.
If our remaining schedule was loaded with teams like Oregon, Oklahoma or Wisconsin you’d have a more persuading argument.
It can go both ways, but I have to agree with UCLA
Put it away earlier? We were still down at halftime after climbing out of a huge hole…
You weren’t nervous when Pitt drove to the Ute 35 with under 4:00 minutes left and could have won the game with one breakout play? I was thinking, if they score now, there is no way the offense can match it.
Utah put themselves in a bad position and easily could have lost that game. Then we would all be talking about how we dominated and are a better team but still lost. The scary part is how dominate the defense was, but at the end of the game there was still a reasonable possibility to lose.
You can’t drive into the red zone four times and come away with a total of nine points. It’s not a formula to win games. Driving to the 5 and not getting a single point is the equivalent of a TO. Those opportunities are too rare. You have to put points on the board. Look what happened against Washington.
by UteinBrooklyn on Oct 18, 2011 11:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh I was absolutely nervous
I even tweeted that we were about to get Riley Nelsoned.
That wasn’t the point of my argument. I was arguing against saying we were fortunate and fortuitous to have come away with the victory. We weren’t lucky to win the game. In fact the only reason the game was close was due to a lot of what could be considered bad luck.
Holy Roller
A thrown ball that goes nowhere near our receiver and instead hits a Pitt defender, flips over another Pitt player and plops into the hands of Luke Matthews while IN STRIDE is pretty fortunate and fortuitous by my book.
I realize we created some of our own ‘luck’ with a great defense, a strong run game, some ‘good’ drives ending in FGs and as someone said a fresh defense fresh courtesy of ST screw-ups.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Oct 19, 2011 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes there were "lucky" plays
But even if you take away that “lucky” TD, we still win. But you are also discounting some of Pitt’s “luck” as well.
Besides I don’t necessarily call that play luck. A fortunate bounce, yes, but not luck. Instead I consider it, the defense not making the play, and our WR keeping in position to make the play and not giving up on it just because it was tipped.
But here’s the thing, that one play, didn’t win the game.
"A thrown ball that goes nowhere near our receiver and instead hits a Pitt defender, flips over another Pitt player and plops into the hands of Luke Matthews while IN STRIDE is pretty fortunate and fortuitous by my book."
Fortunate, yes… meaning we were lucky to get that TD at that particular moment. Fortunate, no… meaning we didn’t need it to win the game.
When people analyze games, they often forget about the possibilities AFTER a particular play. In other words, if that TD pass would’ve fell to the field, how do you know Utah wouldn’t have gotten into the end zone on the following play, or the play after, or the play after?
The point is, it’s unfair to judge an offense on that one particular play… when they didn’t have the opportunity to show us they would’ve gotten into the end zone anyway.
Nelson'd and Cullen'd
Those are being added to my official Utah football vocabulary.
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
it was just a mirage
Utah has shown a lot of this in 2011, but what you’re referring to is smoke and mirrors.
Utah was not on the verge of choking because of an inept offense. They placed themselves on the precipice with mental mistakes.
The offense didn’t score after the Pitt fumble because of at least one personal foul penalty (Cullen). When you have to go 10+ yards in 3 downs, it’s always gonna be a challenge. I don’t care which team you are. Asking the offense to go 10 yards or less isn’t a problem. Asking the offense to go more than 10 yards in a single set of downs is asking a little more. Doesn’t mean Utah’s offense is impotent. Just means they couldn’t pull off 1st, 2nd and 3rd down and long.
And another thing… I hate field goals as much as the next guy. But to say FGs=TOs is ludicrous. Before the late Derrick Shelby pick-6, a FG’s difference game us the lead. Whereas a turnover would’ve had us losing by 1.
I often get as frustrated with our offense as any other Ute fan. But let’s keep things in perspective. Utah doesn’t need to blow every opponent’s doors off with 300+ passing yards and 200+ rushing yards to get the win. If we did, we’d probably be 0-6 right now.
Defense is every bit as important as your offense. Thus, the Utes deserve a little more faith from the fans.
There has been some back and forth
about whether or not Utah was “lucky” to win this game against Pitt.
I would say no, simply because the offense did a good job of putting the defense in positions where they could succeed. There wasn’t really a time when Pitt got the ball in great field position a bunch of times in a row. The offense did enouch. They need to get better and more effective, but i wouldnt call this win lucky.
My main point here though is…..the manner in which this game was won is not sustainable. John White can not carry the ball 36 times/game if we want to win. He is going to last all of two games if that pace continues.
I know, it was windy, and yes, Hays wasn’t picked. But we HAVE to get more production from the pass game. We will lose at least three more games unless we can move the ball via the pass. If we are goign to run the ball, we have to have Harvey Langi getting more carries/making the mist of the carries he gets.
Want to see someone really get their brain twisted up? Try explaining the Monty Hall problem to them....
by BigBenSportsGuy on Oct 17, 2011 12:28 PM MDT reply actions
My main point here though is…..the manner in which this game was won is not sustainable. John White can not carry the ball 36 times/game if we want to win.
Yes, I agree. The manner of win at Pitt is not sustainable. John White against USC, UW and ASU wasn’t really effective. It is debatable where the root cause lays, i.e. with the line, White or the offense in general. My perception is that White runs hard and that he is doing the best he can. Not only only that are defense cannot be expected to pitch a shutout every week.
Our pass game needs to vastly improve.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Oct 17, 2011 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions
UW was really White's only terrible game.
Granted neither the USC game, or the ASU game were great for him, but they weren’t terrible games either.
Against USC, White got stronger as the game went on, and once our defense settled down, was the big reason we stayed in the game offensively. Just look what happened to the offense when he went out for a few drives late in the game.
Against ASU he still ended up with 85 yards. Sure he had that fumble, so it wasn’t a great game, but when you consider how quickly that game turned, and therefore how much we were forced to throw, 17 rushes for 85 yards, (a 5.0 yards per carry average) is still a decent performance.
Langi has gotten his chances, and while they haven’t been in abundance, he really has not been anywhere close to decent looking, outside of the BYU game. Every time he gets the ball, he seems just a bit slow, and unable to hit the hole. Even when he’s catching the ball in the flat, he still a step slow. Langi hasn’t done a single thing this year, that makes me think he deserves more carries. His one good carry of the year, against BYU, he fumbled.
Another agreement
Yeah, what is up with Langi? Was Bingham overrated? Langi looks slow and doesn’t run ‘hard’.
Where are Radley and the other texas kid? We have very little depth on this team. On the other-hand Oregon loses their QB and Heisman candidate RB and they don’t miss a beat.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Oct 17, 2011 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Not many true freshman RB's come in and dominate at the FBS level...
Also, Langi is “slow”…he’s meant to be a power back…
Give him another year or two to put on some muscle, and learn the offense, how to pick up blockers, etc.
I could see him being a RB like BYU’s Harvey Unga…someone who may not be a great open field threat, like White is, but who can punish you if you don’t stack 8 men in the box to bring him down.
by Middy_U on Oct 17, 2011 4:04 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
For the Record
I’m not considering Langi a bust, just don’t think he was ready for playing time as a Frosh. I agree with Middy though, that he’ll be fine with some time.
White would be an open field threat
If he could stop getting tackled by the guy in the green uniform… the one with the white stripes and all those numbers on it?
I think there have been three 30+ yard TD runs this year which have been given up by him tripping over his shoelaces.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Oct 18, 2011 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Sometimes players are great in practice but get nervous under the bright lights. He is still very young, and I’m not sure that is why he’s looked somewhat tentative.
It’s good to give him a couple of reps. If something happens to White, God forbid, then Langi is going to get thrust into a heavy workload.
by UteinBrooklyn on Oct 18, 2011 11:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Remember though, Langi didn't exactly tear it up in practice.
There is a reason he plummeted to third on the depth chart.
I don't mean to be hard on him
He’s basically our whole offense, and despite that he’s putting up big yards. I just want him to have more TDs (more for his sake than anything).
by Joseph Silverzweig on Oct 19, 2011 8:07 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think it's much about Langi, as it is the adjustment
It’s really hard for Freshmen to come in at Running back. He just seems a bit overwhelmed by everything, which I think is why he’s a step slow. I really really wish the Coaches would have redshirted him.
I also don’t think he’s all that happy his freshman season was “wasted” based on some of his re-tweets this past weekend.
Langi is overrated
But I still have hope that he can be good.
Bingham’s O-Line was unreal – Anyone even reasonably good could have racked up 200 yards with that O-Line to help you out and tire out the D-Line.
In HS Langi was not racking up a lot of yards in the 1st half – His statistics picked up in the 2nd half and even more in the 4th quarter when the D-Line was totally depleted.
I still have hope he will be a great pound it up the middle kind of guy, but he has some work to do, and needs to get faster, stronger, and overall more like Matt Asiata.
I'm still hoping that day will come.
He’s only a sophomore. If he can’t get the start at RB, maybe next year he can get on the field as a fullback. I think he’s had a steep learning curve, being relatively new to football, and it seems like he should eventually be able to learn protection and contribute his phenomenal physical talents to the offense.
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
by CrimsonUte on Oct 18, 2011 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lucky is the wrong word
But it easily could have gone the other way, right up until the end.
by UteinBrooklyn on Oct 18, 2011 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions
if u put langi in
With him having limited game reps and being a rookie, we might start running into fumbling issues again. I’m not saying don’t use em, but how about more balance pass and run. Not run run run. Pass run run run run run etc.
by aUTmanAMi on Oct 17, 2011 12:56 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Hays is going to get better.
Hays is being contained by our own offensive play calling – Presumably to get him comfortable with the current offense without committing turnovers. But look for him to have 1-2 more big plays each game. He had 1-2 this game. I expect to see 3-4 from him against Cal as the offense gets more comfortable letting him run a few more plays.
White will continue to be White and give Hays a running threat, allowing the defense to over commit to the run and give him a couple of fun plays to run.
I think Utah improves quickly on offense (We kind of had a 6-8 week setback because of Wynn going down) – And hopefully Cullen either gets benched or stops getting stupid penalties.
The special teams is still a wild card for me. Who knows what happens there – But it will probably affect the outcome of the game.
I saw improvement just this week...
…and some of that improvement is knowing when to throw the ball away, & when to take the sack. He did a good job of both of those items in the Pitt game.
We don’t need Hays to be a world beater…we just need him to keep the defense honest. As mentioned by someone else in this thread, his next task will be learning to read/pick up the blitz. We need Christopher healthy, and when that happens, he Dres & Dunn can make plays in the open field.
I’m cautiously optimistic that Hays could get us to 8-4 with the defense we have. They just need 21 points & a mistake free game. I see no reason our offense can produce those results in every game for the rest of the season. There are no defensive powerhouses on the upcoming schedule.
What I hope for is having a polished QB in 2012. Whoever ends up being the starter is going to have a ridiculous amount of weapons. I hope that QB can take advantage of it.
New Game Plan?
Give up a couple of Special Teams touch downs to keep the defense off the field and fresh for the whole game :)
by WesTravelingEast on Oct 17, 2011 1:53 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Don’t worry. Our ST is worse than yours
In other words, Go Bears!
by royrules22 on Oct 18, 2011 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or maybe you only want us to THINK that
Sneaky, sneaky ;)
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Don't care if your kicker won Pac-12 ST POW
Utah, your special teams suck, aside from the skills of the kicker. I watched the Pitt game and portions of Utah’s UW-ASU games.
Cal seems to have a PAT syndrome, but they’re not giving up TDs. And Cal’s PR Jones called for a fair catch at his own 5. But Utah’s ST still suck.
by ginfizzbear on Oct 18, 2011 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
ST suck?
We wanted to be first in the conference in something.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Oct 18, 2011 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
If you're going to run smack, do your research...
http://www.pac-12.org/portals/7/images/Football/2011-Stats/HTML/confldrs.htm
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Overall Utah ranks…
3rd in kickoff coverage; Cal #10
5th in kickoff returns; Cal #9
6th in punt returns; Cal #9
6th in FG’s; Cal #3
12th in punting…but apparently you weren’t aware of the 30mph wind gusts during the Pitt game. As you’ll see below, that skews this statistic pretty heavily.
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http://www.pac-12.org/portals/7/images/Football/2011-Stats/HTML/confonly.htm
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In Conference play, Utah is…
1st in kickoff coverage, against 3 of the top 5 schools in the conference. Cal #10
6th in kickoff returns, Cal #12
6th in punting, Cal #5
7th in punt returns, Cal #4
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…so what the exactly are you talking about? It appears that your opinion sucks & is baseless.
I'm impressed with Hays
In that he didn’t make any seriously stupid mistakes this weekend. Sure a few of those batted passes were a little scary, but diving right at the linebacker to recover his own pass shows heart and I can appreciate that. I don’t like sacks, but sometimes it’s better to take a sack than to try and force something that can lead to a fumble, int, or intentional grounding. He still has a ways to go, but I can see him getting more comfortable and confident in playing and that makes me happy, or at least lessens my concern.
I was happy to see ball security in force. JW4 kept both hands on that thing until he was 10 yards past the line. I also saw Dres tuck over the ball the instant he got touched so that means it’s becoming instinct. Good.
The kickoff team is still inconsistent. It’s as though they either drop the returner inside the 15 or they let them past the 35. I’d be happy if every return was covered at the 20 – 25 yard line. Granted I’d also like Vroman back so he could send it out the back of the endzone every time.
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
He needs to get rid of the ball.
A few of those sacks were absolutely on Hays’ shoulder. He needs to have a clock in his head. After 3-4 seconds that ball needs to be gone, even if it’s a throw away. There were a few sacks after 4 Mississippi, and one that even started on 6 Mississippi.
I'd rather he took the sack than forced something...
I agree that there is a point when you need to throw the ball away, but I’m not sure Hays should be overly concerned with it.
To me, it seems like when a QB is concerned with time management in the pocket, they either force a bad pass, or fumble the ball as the pocket collapses around them.
I think Hays will improve with this as he gets used to the speed of the FBS level. He’s probably still used to functioning a few seconds longer without heavy pressure.
I don't want to see him force anything.
But he can throw the ball away.
Agreed...but that is something even NFL QB's struggle with...
I’m just happy when he doesn’t turn the ball over, even if he does take a sack.
I heard the announcers
Mention that the Pitt QB had a buzzer of some kind in practice. Once. Or twice. Or a thousand freakin’ times.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Oct 18, 2011 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Or for us
We only had six sacks, they had seven.
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Hays got sacked in a max protect formation
in the 4th Q v Pitt. Wow.
by ginfizzbear on Oct 18, 2011 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Someone with not much to do, apparently
Just let the troll starve.
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
True
I’m not saying he’s playing a perfect game, but I’m not seeing him pull a Cullen either. We saw Wynn do some of the same stuff and he was steadily improving each week too. I’m not expecting Hays to be a star ( just yet, ) just to not do dumb things.
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Pitt overcommitted to Hays
I think White had such a good game because the LBs went to the outside to try and sack Hays EVERY SINGLE play. That left the middle open, and White to get 5+ yards each carry.
I don’t think CAL will come with the same game-plan as PITT. PITT was pretty effective stopping Hayes overall, but did so at the cost of giving White 150+ yards on the ground. I would take the ground yards any day, as that gives Utah the ball for 40 minutes, and lets Utah’s defense get a TON of rest.
I think CAL will be tougher than PITT, but I think with another week of practice and reps, Hays is up for the challenge of a better team.
by jim2 on Oct 18, 2011 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Defensively both these teams are better than their record shows
defensive stats for Utah and pac-12 rank
3rd in pass defense: 231.8
2nd in rush defense: 94.50
2nd in scoring defense: 20.5
2nd in total defense: 326.3
defensive stats for California and pac-12 rank:
1st in pass defense: 222.8
5th in rush Defense: 132.67
7th in scoring defense: 28.3
3rd in total defense: 355.5
Ultimately I think it comes down to which team makes the fewer mistakes. We’ve seen turnovers be killers for both teams.
also as bad as the utes offense has been..
it’s amazing our defense still ranks 2nd in most categories. more credit to our defense.
i think hays and our offense will get better and last week we ran the ball well. i expect that to continue.
OSU game
Anyone heard a time for the Oregon St game?
Which is bad news from a TV Perspective.
Then again I’ve thought for a few weeks that the Oregon State, Arizona, and possibly even the UCLA game, would all be relegated to KJZZ.
I really wish that the school hadnt announced
the OSU game as a blackout. we will probably get a 1:30 kick again…..
Want to see someone really get their brain twisted up? Try explaining the Monty Hall problem to them....
by BigBenSportsGuy on Oct 18, 2011 8:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Our pass defense still scares me a bit...
I was not overly impressed with Maynard in what I’ve seen of him. However, I was impressed with the receivers Cal has. I felt like Utah gave Mo Lee a significant amount of time against Pitt, which could be good because we could use his size.
Conroy Black always scares me. He cannot run and track a ball at the same time. He’s fast as can be, but I suspect he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. Seriously, how many passes have gone his way, where he’s had great coverage and the receiver still has an easy catch? I would argue every pass ASU threw at him.
I like Lacy. The kid is ballsy. Not afraid to be physical, but gives up A LOT of size to CAL receivers. The boys are for the most part all around 6’ 4" and can run.
I think the d-line will help. They get great pressure on the QB, but I think a primary concern for me is going to be Maynard scrambling for 8+ yards. I think we struggle with more mobile quarterbacks i.e. Osweiller (SP?) and Price at times.
I just don’t know about this game…
by BetterasIgetolder on Oct 17, 2011 5:49 PM MDT reply actions
It's the definition of 'can go either way...'
If our defense can create a few turnovers and the O doesn’t cough the ball up, we win.
Which is AWESOME in a way
I mean, really, isn’t it nice to actually have a game every week? I, for one, wasn’t going to brave another downpour or snowstorm just to watch another CSU or UNM beatdown. Having these questions every week makes it kind of exciting.
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
agreed!
it adds to the stress level, but it sure makes it more intriguing!
Want to see someone really get their brain twisted up? Try explaining the Monty Hall problem to them....
by BigBenSportsGuy on Oct 18, 2011 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I wonder why they don't call more CB blitzes for Lacy
It seems everytime he does, good things happen
If, ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a perfect season.
I think our O is going to find it’s way this week. Our D is solid. Special teams has a lot of work this week to get better. I think the game is there for the taking. We just need to take advantage of every play.
Teams are so similar it's kinda nuts
3-3, 0-3 with losses to USC and UW and someone at the top of their respective divisions.
Utah’s defense is potentially awesome but nobody’s sure.. Cal’s offense is the same. Utah’s offense is painful to watch and Cal has a pretty leaky defense. Seems like a really hard game to bet on. I think both coaches are selling this as back against the wall.. Utah winning a non-conference game against Pitt was nice and all but it really means squat long term you gotta beat your conference.
Oh and both beat the crap out of a religious school this year in a game that many fans questioned the value of playing :p
"...And on the 7th turnover the Utes rested."
I don't think it's fair to compare Presbyterian to BYU
That’s awfully degrading to the Blue Hose.
Rabbit's foot

Hopefully our team can’t read the over loading elevator sign and get stuck in the lift again.
I've been looking forward to THIS game all year!!!
As a Cal alum and a Ute fan… I’ve been waiting for this game all season.
Why? Finally…. at last…. I can cheer for both teams on the field, and not really care if Utah wins or loses.
If Utah wins, great. If Cal wins, cool. I’m covered.
My prediction, however… 21-20 Utah.

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