Pac-12 steppin' up its game - now Utah has to too
by JazzyUte on Nov 30, 2011 2:21 PM MST
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PrintWashington State has reportedly just hired former Texas Tech head coach Mike Leach.
Last week, Arizona hired offensive guru Rich Rodriguez, while UCLA and Arizona State will surely equal such great hires in the coming weeks.
The Pac-12 has improved greatly over the last few days and now the Utes have to counter.
That's not to say they aren't prepared or close - but with it likely the competition will rise over the next couple years, Utah can't afford to lay eggs at home like they did this season. Utah can't afford losing, at home, to ten-loss teams. As we found out this season, that loss to Colorado was the difference between a losing conference record and playing for the Pac-12 title.
Next year or the year after that, such a loss could cost Utah a decent bowl berth or worse, a winning season.
Fortunately, I think we've got the coaches who adapt well and I have all the faith in the world Kyle Whittingham is already combing over all the mistakes made this season and in the finale.
Hopefully next year's team is better disciplined and more focused on the end-game, because the path to glory just got a bit harder.
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2011 Utah is the Apple to the Pac-12 Oranges
2011 Utah was not a Pac-12 team. Even if it played in a Pac-12 Conference.
Even Colorado, which was terrible, has been getting AQ Recruits, and AQ Coaches for many many moons.
No Utah can’t afford many more eggs like the Colorado game, but we can’t forget that Utah is still mostly (80%ish) a MWC.
And considering that Utah also isn’t getting full Pac-12 Monies, it also buys a bit of time for the team. But not much.
Agreed...
But I think this team let their guard down entering the Colorado game. In retrospect, it’s obvious. Whittingham spent much of his TV show the Sunday before the game talking about the potential of playing in the Pac-12 title game – so unlike Whitt, who’s always taken it one game at a time. It seems the team adopted the feeling that this game was a formality and we had to worry more about Cal/ASU and USC/UCLA than anything else.
So maybe you’re right when you say we were 80% MWC, because I think we entered this game with the mentality of a MWC team. Last year, we could look past a bad team and cruise to victory.
Not anymore.
We also have to play better at home. I think we were far more prepared in all of our road games (excluding Cal) than we were at home. The only home game where we played exceptionally well was UCLA. The rest, we had some serious faults that either cost us the games (Washington, ASU, Colorado) or kept us from winning more impressively (MSU and OSU).
That needs to change. I’m not asking for a perfect home record, but 3-3 won’t cut it next year.
I hate to state the obvious but...
Not only was Utah 80% MWC, but Colorado was 80% a Big 12 Team. Meaning it was prepared to play better teams week in and week out. Maybe that meant something when it came up against Utah.
College football over the NFL any day. College basketball way over the NBA any day. Go Orange. Go Utes. Go Kings. Go Dodgers.
The loss was the anomaly.
The 80% thing is irrelevant. Utah was much better prepared to play against P12 competition regardless of the conference it came out of. Games like last Saturday happen. “Forget it Jake, it’s the Pac-12.”
Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 2, 2011 1:50 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not arguing that Utah let their guard down...
The Colorado loss was completely inexcusable. And yes this team lost it’s typical one game at a time mentality leading up to the game.
What I do have an issue with is the air of doom that has surrounded this team. Everyone acts like because of the thud of our final game, our first season in the Pac-12 was an unmitigated disaster.
It wasn’t.
On the other hand it wasn’t a great year. It wasn’t the kind of year that will be acceptable in the future, but all things considered it was still a good year.
Especially when you add in the injury situation, which was an example of the lack of depth that comes from the jump in competition.
There’s a lot that needs to change, and maybe it’s just me reading into a lot of the posts here, but it seems that many have lost the faith that this team will be able to adapt to Pac-12 play. Personally this season has given me the exact opposite feeling.
Assuming that Whit can do better in recruiting for depth, the one really inexcusable weakness. There’s no way he should have went into this season with only Wynn. The way this team adjusted, and fought back, Black Friday excluded, gives me hope that the Utes will “step up it’s game” once it gets on more equal footing.
A wise man once said
“Experience is what you get when you didn’t get what you wanted.” I think the experience of this season (including losing to Colorado) will be the best thing for this program moving forward in the PAC-12, where the concept of parity is taken to a whole new level. It’s one thing to say you must take every game seriously; it’s something else to know how it feels. Playing in the P12CG would have been an amazingly improbable finish to this season, but I wonder what that would have done to the psyche of next year’s team – thinking they could lose 4 conference games and still be in the running.
I'm sorry
But did we not finish 7-5 our first season in the conference? Are we not gong bowling? We are a fucking Pac-12 team — not the best, not the worst. Granted, the CU loss stung — a lot — but it does not a season make (although you could argue, and most of you probably feel, that it did a season unmake). And those of you saying a 3-10 CU is a better representative of the conference than us are still in the anger stage on the Kubler-Ross scale.
Conclusion: we are a legitimate Pac-12 team, but to remain as one we will have to improve to keep up with the Jonses.
by kadoogan on Nov 30, 2011 10:10 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Well the fact they're shooting for Petersen tells me they mean business...
Even if they don’t get him.
I know UCLA fans will scoff at Houston’s Sumlin, but I think he would be a great hire.
Yeah but they're not good at the business
I think Sumlin will likely end up at ASU.
Arms race...
I don’t know how to take these new coaches. Then again I don’t know how to take our coaches…
by BetterasIgetolder on Nov 30, 2011 3:38 PM MST via iPhone app reply actions
I'm excited for the Conference and
because in the near future the Ducks will have at least 2 more quality opponents (which equates to more exciting games to watch). Who wants to pay $100+ per seat to see WSU or Arizona come to Autzen when they have shown they can’t compete? Now though, those games promise to be barnburners!! The Pac 12 is suddenly energized by these 2 hires and will in all likelyhood, gain ground on both the SEC and Big 10.
I would not be too sure though about UCLA and ASU hiring good coaches. Both schools have albatrosses – Dan Guerrero and Lisa Love, the ADs.
Question for the Utah Utes fans…… Since we didn’t play you this season and I’m still learning about your school, what’s your opinion of your Athletic Director? Has he made good hires in the past? Do you trust him with your program now that you are in the ‘Big Leagues’?
Honestly, I'm still undecided on Hill
When it comes to football, Hill hit a home run with Urban, and IMO went the obvious route by getting Whittingham. Urban kind of came out of nowhere, and no one really knew of him when he came to Utah, but he obviously did well. With Whit, he seemed the obvious choice, and considering that BYU was courting him at the same time, that’s why Hill hurried and offered him. So he never really had to do a 2nd coaching search.
From a basketball standpoint his coaching searches have been an unmitigated disaster going from bad, to worse to…..
Giacoletti seemed like Hill was trying to find the Basketball Urban Meyer, an unknown ready to make the leap. Giac flamed out quickly once Majerus’ recruits were gone. Next was Boylen who has absolutely obliterated the program.
It’s too early to judge his most recent hire’s performace, and Kysko has only been here about 5 games, but it’s not too early to judge the process that led to the hiring, which doesn’t get a high grade. For some reason it seemed as if Hill wanted Larry K badly (He was a runner up in the previous coaching search), and it seemed he didn’t give some other coaches a legit search (Such as Bennett, or Dave Rice).
Outside of coaching hires, we don’t really have a lot to go on. So far he seems to have done a good job with the facilities, and they’ve announced that they will be doing a massive upgrade to the football facilities. Also I may be in the minority, but I’m kind of glad he didn’t immediately announce a stadium upgrade, instead making Utah fans prove they’ll continue with the support if things get difficult. And considering how empty certain portions of the stadium got at the end of the year, most obviously the South East corner, if and when an expansion is announced I’m betting it will be closer to 5,000 seats than 15,000 seats.
Hill has become a very divisive figure...
It wasn’t long ago, most Ute fans thought he was the best AD in the country. He came in and made some dramatic changes to the program. Shortly after being hired, Hill fired Lynn Archibald, a pretty popular, albeit mediocre, head basketball coach and made a home-run hire with Rick Majerus. He then fired Jim Fassel and hired Ron McBride, who turned Utah football into a competitive program.
He allowed Majerus to do his thing, even though they both clashed later in his career here. Allowed McBride a ton of time to rebuild the football team and take it to the next level (he could never do it), and when that didn’t happen, made the appropriate change by firing him and then hiring Urban Meyer. He also worked tirelessly to get Utah into the Pac-12, kept Coach Whittingham from bolting to BYU and that’s about where it ends.
He has run the football program phenomenally. Oversaw a new stadium, the creation of an indoor practice facility and now the construction of a football training facility which will be awesome, but he’s also neglected the basketball program.
Utah could never capitalize on its run to the NC game in ‘98, attendance dipped, Majerus and Hill became bitter enemies, forcing Majerus to ’retire’ midway through a season, and his coaching hires have been less than stellar since. He hired Giacoletti from little known EWU (he flopped), then hired Boylen (who was better, but still struggled…), and now he’s on his third basketball coach since the ’04 season.
I think the prevailing thought here is that Hill’s reputation will take a devastating hit of Larry Krsystkowiak fails. It’s also been suggested that Hill probably won’t be around to witness it anyway, as he might just retire in the coming years.
The Jim Fassel of NY Giants fame??
Hiring Urban was obviously a home run – he’s probably due to retire anyhow, since it appears that he’s been in charge now for what – 17 or 18 years? That’s a long time considering how much college sports have changed over the last 2 decades (and even more amazing considering Utah’s inclusion in the Pacific Conference). Hiring Majerus was obviously a good move, too; though from lurking here on ‘BlockU’ I’ve noticed there’s a lot of animosity towards Majerus – his coaching was the first thing that brought the University of Utah to my attention. Sort of a ‘where the hell did they come from???’ moment.
Thanks for the history lesson, UnHoly Ram and JazzyUte.
If y’all don’t mind, I’ll stick my nose in on occasion – and try my best not to be too offensive when I do so.
by ConfofChamps on Dec 1, 2011 11:32 PM MST up reply actions
Yup. Jim Fassel...
I believe he was a Stanford assistant back when Utah made the hire.
The hire was made solely as a counter to BYU’s pass attack, which left every WAC team – and Utah – in the Cougars’ dust.
Fassel had worked with Jack Elway for a year there, and he employed the spread offense, so he was supposed to do to Utah as LaVell Edwards did to BYU.
Didn’t work out.
I wouldn’t say Fassel was a complete disaster here. He did bring offense to Utah (Utes led the nation in a lot of statistics during his tenure), but he failed to recruit on defense and it left the Utes losing in embarrassing fashion a great deal of time.
But Fassel did manage two winning seasons here (including an 8-4 record his first season here), but there was never any consistency – after the 8-4 season, they’d have only one winning season in four.
He did, however, beat BYU in ‘88…in a romp. Utah finished that season on a four-game winning streak, but didn’t get to a bowl game with a 6-5 record. The victory over the Cougars, 57-28, was probably the highlight of his time here.
It was also the first sign that maybe BYU wasn’t going to dominate the rivalry forever. Yeah, they won again four straight after that – but by ‘93, Utah gained the upper hand in the rivalry and hasn’t looked back.
AS for the animosity for Majerus, I think a lot of it is how he allowed the program to erode and his abrupt leaving. Most Ute fans still like him, but he didn’t necessarily leave on good terms.
But that’s for another time…
I miss WHITCON
and we probably won’t be seeing it for years, now that Utah is in an AQ conference!
I mean that’s good, but it’s bad, but it’s good, but…
WHITCON was probably one of my better ideas...
But I agree, I’m not worried at all about losing him.
We have the staff in place to get the job done
The biggest gaps between the Utah football program and the rest of the PAC-12 are not in the coaching staff – they’re facilities ($) and recruiting. The Utah staff in on-par with the rest of the conference and they can will make up significant ground in recruiting, but the program will never get close to the PAC-12 elite in terms of cash flow. That will prove to be our most difficult hurdle. If the staff starts getting cherry-picked by bigger programs I’ll start to worry, but we’re good for now.
TV deal helps
Wassu isn’t exactly known for having loose wallets, but they are stepping up to the plate with a major offer to Leach.
Technically Rich Rod is a steal as well for ’Zona as they are basically paying him the same as Stoops.
What helps them, and will help Utah is that fancy TV Contract. While Utah will never be able to match USC, or Oregon, or maybe even UCLA, that tv Contract should help Utah immensely.
The Utes obviously have to step it up...
just because of the conference we are in now, but I’ll take Whit and the rest of our staff over any other school in the conference. I have so much faith in this staff (especially with Chow on board) right now.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
time to wake up
Now were in the big leagues.
by aUTmanAMi on Nov 30, 2011 4:46 PM MST via mobile reply actions
The Colorado Failure
I liked the Coaches game plan against Colorado.
The players just did not execute or needed to be.
1) Mo Lee getting flagged on the first series for punching a player. What a small time player, but a big time moron. I am glad the coaching staff benched him.
2) Pac-12 player of the week Coleman Peterson deserved Pac-12 Goat of the week.
3) Mr. Vakapuna. Sheesh. Great hard running, but the football must have been greased the way it flew out straight into the sky. That was a killer fumble as we were driving.
4) Jon Hays. 2 sacks on the last drive to push us further back on the FG attempt. Sheesh again.
5) The Offense in the first half – again. It seems like every game we start off slow. Every fricking game. But 1 first down in the first half, PATHETIC.
6) The ’Great" Defense. What defense. Yeah, they were there for the CU game – sometimes – barely. CU had lots of long drives.
7) Nick Marsh. Ok so he is not getting touch, but that onside kick would have been nice to recover.
8) the Team was flat. No excuse for that.
9) Langi. I was high on this kid before the season. But from what I have seen, it seems like his mind is still back at Bingham.
I hang this one on the players. They weren’t ready. Team Captains and leaders need to a better job of judging the pulse of the team and kicking some kiester of their fellow teammates when they aren’t ready to play.
As for next season. Yes, the Pac-12 is getting better. How do we stay competitive? For one thing, get a better backup QB and backup RB.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Nov 30, 2011 5:13 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
well said.
Overall it seemed to me that every time this year that the players (or coaches) started believing they were just entitled to win they started losing it REALLY REALLY fast.
The bunch seemed talented enough to compete with anyone but not so much that they would win any games on talent alone (except the MST game which was ugly I believe precisely because of that) which is what I think the biggest change from the MWC was mindset wise.
"...And on the 7th turnover the Utes rested."
Colorado Rivalry
The loss to the Buffs was very frustrating. We had a chance for a ‘special’ season despite our setbacks during the first part of the season. Too many errors, lack of execution and players not being mentally prepared were the most of the factors that doomed Utah for this game.
As far as I am concerned we have a rivalry with CU now because of that Embree guy.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Dec 1, 2011 9:14 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry but not even close to a Rivalry.
I’ve said it over in the thread dedicated tot he topic but I’ll say it here.
Still not close to a rivalry. In Fact, It’s not even the loss I want to avenge the most. Actually of all our conference losses, it’s the one that I’m least looking forward to avenging.
I realize we had a lot theoretically on the line, but I’m not all that upset over not back dooring our way into a lopsided defeat.
And no offense to Colorado, but I don’t feel like they won the game, so much as we lost.
And most telling that it’s not a rivalry, is to me, my first thought as I sat in the North End Zone and watched that final kick curve in, than out of the goal post, wasn’t about getting revenge, it was “Ahh Crap, TDS fans are not going to shut up about this”
I watched the post game interview with Embree and Petros Papadakis (whatever)
That Embree guy rubs me the wrong way. Even more so than Bronko.
That’s the start of a rivalry in my book.
And as for your comment.
And no offense to Colorado, but I don’t feel like they won the game, so much as we lost.
That is an offense.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Dec 1, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Which is the loss you want to avenge the most? How does the Cal game rank?
In other words, Go Bears!
Cal's up there, but just misses out ...
.. To USC.
After USC, it’s the Cal game. That was just such a brutal game. Followed by the ASU and UW games and then finally the Colorado.
I can’t decide which loss was worse for me between the UW/ASU games but I think I give ASU the nod, because of how overrated Osweiler and Burfict were in that game. (And the season)
Also as cliched as it is to pick USC
It’s not simply cause it’s USC that I picked them. Its because the team was (relatively for 2011) at full health, and came oh so very close on the road. Down to the last play, only to lose by 3 (No matter what BS the Conference tries to spread)
Avenge sounds all noble the ones I want back are in order…
1. The Colorado game pisses me off the most. Total giveway.
2. The ASU game drove me nuts because of how we gave it away. In almost consecutive plays no less. (I don’t credit ASU with beating us much is what I’m saying I guess.)
3. The Washington game because it seemed like they got out coached in the 2nd half..
4/5 I had consistently maintained that we’d lose either the Cal or Pitt game simply because of the schedule so that they played so bad didn’t really upset me terribly because I was totally expecting it. And the USC game neither team really knew what they had yet.. and I think both teams played really too conservatively. At this point it seems like a huge opportunity lost because USC improved so much throughout the year where we just held on for the most part.
"...And on the 7th turnover the Utes rested."
I've been disappointed
with all the knee-jerking by some people in response to the Colorado loss. That loss was absolutely crushing, but it should not be cause to question whether or not Coach Whit is the right man for the job. Coaching changes should consider a large sample size – a body of work – not one or two or even a handful of losses.
Everything was stacked against Utah this year – new conference, new coaches, new offense, making an unprecedented move from small time to the big time with less talent and less money and with no quarterback for most of the season. The fact that the team looked totally unprepared for one game as opposed to the whole season shows the quality of the Utah coaching staff.
Well I hope no one is hinting that we need a coaching change...
Adjustments, sure, but not a change. Coaches evolve and grow – that’s what keeps them from being stagnant. This year was a trial run and we saw what went wrong, now we’ve got to fix it.
Not at the top, but some supporting staff maybe...
At the top I agree that we’re well staffed (meaning Whit, Chow and Sitaki). But what about positions coaches? Tim Davis is high caliber coach and Scalley has done a great job with the backfield, but I’ve asked this before: Is Brian Johnson really the right guy for a PAC12 team QB coach? Recruiting in Texas = awesome, but getting the guys’ heads right for the game? Not so sure. There just something missing at that position with any QB he’s coached. John Hays made a LOT of mistakes early that were expected, but to still make dumb mistakes (like not throwing the ball away TWICE in critical situation vs CO) jump out to me as poor coaching. A-Rod and Schramm seem to be okay for their positions, and I don’t know much about the rest of the staff.
I like Brian Johnson as a QB coach. So far I've seen no reason to doubt him
I honestly don’t credit him with Hays’ mistakes, there’s only so much that coaching can do. Hays’ just doesn’t have the brains or instincts to play at this level as a starter or even 2nd string.
by khaostheory117 on Nov 30, 2011 8:57 PM MST up reply actions
I wouldn't lay all the blame on BJ
Hays taking 2 sacks is due to his inexperience as a qb. Stressed and pressured with the game on the line, trying to potentially put the game away, held on to the ball. I am certain Brian Johnson would of told him, if we had a timeout, Dont be a hero! (meaning don’t throw the ball dangerously or do something stupid aka take a sack …. twice… haha. Basically you can coach and train someone all you want, but sometimes they don’t always execute like you have taught them. So i wouldn’t say its entirely BJ’s fault… you with me?
BJ has had Jordon Wynn and Jon Hays to work with..
not exactly drew brees and tom brady
i don’t know how you can blame brian johnson for the QB problems, our current QB’s are wayyy over their head in the pac-12
i hope the guys we bring in next year are good because we need huge help at the QB position
Random....
Anyone else think Mike Leach, the picture above, looks like Alec Baldwin?
" I am at this moment writing a lengthy indictment against our century. When my brain begins to reel from my literary labors, I make an occasional cheese dip."
We must fire Whitt immediately! It is the only way to remain relevant in the Pac!
Then we must hire a true grade A coach! I say start with Les Miles and if he is too dumb to take the job from all that grass he consumes we should go after Saban! Obviously our program is better than Bama! We beat them remember? LOL! Besides, who would want to live in the south? They’re way unsophisticated and don’t even have snow! LOL!
by kadoogan on Nov 30, 2011 10:19 PM MST via mobile reply actions
It's a joke.
Check the settings on your sarcasm meter.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
Welcome to the club
Attractive, Intelligent, Smart A**
by Neil Vincent Roberts on Dec 2, 2011 4:18 PM MST up reply actions
What are we going to call Leach?
Les Miles is the “Mad Hatter”, but I don’t think there is anyone as crazy as Leach. What shall we call this BYU graduate and holder of a Juris Doctorate???
by BetterasIgetolder on Nov 30, 2011 10:29 PM MST reply actions
the man already has the best nickname in the business
Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - R. Feynman
by GBB4188 on Nov 30, 2011 11:05 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Greatest thing since Pirates of the Carribean?
Let’s take a breather, here. There is a good post on the Seattle Times’ UW football forums breaking down Leach that’s well worth the read.
by Skeptical Dawg on Dec 1, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
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