Fans pick Utah as Pac-12 surprise team

by JazzyUte on May 16, 2011 12:11 AM MDT in Football

Over at ESPN, they've been running a group of polls for every conference (and the non-BCS overall) asking a whole host of questions.

One of the questions asked was what Pac-12 team would surprise the most in 2011. Utah ran away with the voting, scoring an impressive 33% in the five-team race. Washington State, at 19%, is a distant 2nd choice to the Utes.

So a great deal of fans from all over the college football landscape (as I doubt only Pac-12 fans voted in this poll) believe Utah will surprise in 2011.

Now the question I have is what exactly constitutes being the surprise team of 2011? We already know the Utes will enter this season as one of the favorites to win the Pac-12 South, so it's not like expectations have been lowered by a great deal of people.

If they're the consensus 2nd place pick behind Arizona State, I guess just getting to the conference championship in December would be a surprise.

But the results are definitive. 33% is a lot when you're going up against four other options. That means these fans either expect Utah to exceed those expectations and realistically maneuver themselves for a Pac-12 title, or they just assume the program is poised for five or six wins and think they can bump that up by two or three.

I don't know. Maybe I'm over analyzing these results (I tend to do that a lot, as you're probably all well aware). We'll see.

Beyond just that voting, Utah was picked third in the biggest disappointment poll, which just shows how divisive opinions are toward the Utes.

As for who would win the Pac-12 title, Oregon was the resounding favorite, with Stanford and SC the distant third and fourth choices. Utah comes in at 6% - just ahead of Arizona State at 4%. Which takes us back to the original question and what fans actually expect out of Utah.

My take is that most fans probably think the Utes will win the Pac-12 South (or at least will do so if SC's sanctions aren't overturned) and then promptly lose to Oregon in the conference championship.

Is that your expectation heading into the season?

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Comments

It's like you touched on, Jazzman.

“Biggest surprise” has a positive connotation, but what’s the baseline? Are the people saying Utah will be the biggest surprise and the biggest disappointment actually expecting the same record for the Utes (within a win or two)?

I guess it’s nice that Utah’s being voted at the top of a “good” poll, but it’s hard to discern what it means.

by BoylenOver on May 16, 2011 5:20 AM MDT reply actions

i saw that poll too. but i think utah will be playing stanford in the pac-12 CG

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by wolfmanshowlforever on May 16, 2011 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions

polls like this are the best

they allow people to come to them. They don’t go after a specific demographic and then twist the results (see: giving Obama a rise in “approval rating” by polling more democrats) but I digress……

Its hard to say that I “expect” the Utes to win the P12South, but I expect us to be competitive in each game. I think we could win the division (and then promptly lose to Oregon)

It will be a fun year..

Formerly SportsInUtah
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy

by BigBenSportsGuy on May 16, 2011 9:08 AM MDT reply actions

In the days of message boards I don't think that's true.

Polls like this get posted to specific message boards and the fans of a couple of teams destroy the poll. It’s not a bad thing, allows the fans a chance to interact with the media and get something to talk about, but these results are completely unscientific.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on May 16, 2011 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions

having majored in stats,

I can tell you its darn near impossible to do a poll that is anywhere near scientific.

My point is that putting this up on ESPN ensures that you are going to get a fairly decent sample. Its too big for any one fan base to sabotage it.

I agree though, I dont put any stock in these results.

Formerly SportsInUtah
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy

by BigBenSportsGuy on May 16, 2011 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions

of course

that doesn’t prevent ESPN themselves from sabatoging it. Only 5 choices for biggest surprise? Only 5 for biggest disappointment? And no “other” option? Poor poll design IMO.

Mr Pac Ten's Blog - 2007 2008 2009 2010

by MrPacTen on May 17, 2011 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions

true.

Formerly SportsInUtah
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy

by BigBenSportsGuy on May 17, 2011 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions

I don't expect Utah to win the Pac-12 South

Although I certainly hope they’re right there in the mix for it.

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by CrimsonUte on May 16, 2011 9:24 AM MDT reply actions

I'm hoping the Utes are in contention

I certainly don’t expect a South title, but I’m looking to be in the running during the last few weeks. Every week will be a battle, will seem more like NFL regular season to me than our recent past where one loss ruins the season essentially. I like what we are heading for.

by Thlete on May 16, 2011 10:20 AM MDT reply actions

Optimism

Last year following the announcement of Utah joining the Pac-12, I was sky high with good feelings about the football program. After beating a nationally ranked Pitt team with their three 1st Team All-Americans, the optimism only increased.

With the dismantling of a good Iowa State team and witnessing the blow-out domination of Colorado State at RES, the confidence in our football program only grew higher. When we beat a very good and dangerous AF team on the road and were poised to take the world by storm with our number 6 ranking in the polls leading up to TCU game I was beyond sky high, I was out of earth orbit. As they say, the higher they get, the bigger the fall.

I am a cautious yet optimistic person on how we will fare in the Pac-12 – 2011.

Optimistic because we have a good Coach, who has feet on the ground.

I think the keys to this season rest on Jordan Wynn’s arm, his durability and his maturity. After the Cal game 2 years ago, I thought Wynn had really arrived. After watching him take the hook-slide during the Notre Dame on a crucial 3rd down play, I too came back down to earth regarding Wynn. His casual comments to the press after games suggested to me, he still needed to grow up.

Keys to this year in my opinion are:

1) Wynn
2) Langi, White and Thretton. I hope it is Langi who becomes our No 1 back. Watching Thretton play rugby against Cal, I was not impressed on how he failed to take charge, even though he was probably the biggest talent out there that day.
3) our DBs. Last year I felt we had a good run defense, but our secondary got exposed. Sorry to say, they were pathetic the last few games.

4) As Cal switches from a pro-style O to a spread, I hope Coach Whit keeps the spread scheme in his back pocket. The spread is what got our program great. Let’s not forget the girl who took us to the dance. Jordan Wynn may not be the ideal QB to run the spread, but I wouldn’t abandon the offense either. As Sun Tze said in the Art of War, deception is necessary to be successful in battle or ….in a football game.

by Utah-UCLA alum on May 16, 2011 10:54 AM MDT reply actions

cals starting qb is a transfer from university of buffalo. i don't think cal is going to be all that good

that institution also has major financial problems. they had to get rid of at least one sport and maybe two.

by wolfmanshowlforever on May 16, 2011 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions

you sir, are ill-informed

there is this little pac-12 TV deal that is going to keep the lights on at Cal, and maybe enable the school to make next month’s rent. Cal is no longer cutting sports after they announced that deal.

The new Cal QB is a transfer from Buffalo, but don’t throw him under the bus for that. Brett Farve went to Southern Miss and that is not a big time school.

But you are right to have low exectations for Cal, IMO. I think they go 6-6.

by ginfizzbear on May 17, 2011 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions

oh yeah and Cal is not going to the spread

The Bears will install some more run plays for QB Maynard, who has good feet. Cal fans might notice a little more zone read or rollouts in 2011, but the offense can be fairly characterized as pro style.

by ginfizzbear on May 18, 2011 8:17 PM MDT up reply actions

Really, it wasn’t the TV deal that saved them – the teams were all reinstated before the deal was announced. Rather, it was the efforts of alumni and other private donors that rescued the teams – they’re the ones who stepped up and donated what was necessary to keep those teams viable. This new TV deal will certainly help to maintain the status quo, but the department will still have to remain fiscally fit for the foreseeable future.

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by BearStage on May 19, 2011 12:53 AM MDT up reply actions

can't blame Thretton

I’m no rugby expert, but it was obvious the cal bears were far superior than the utes. Asking Thretton to play better is like asking an all-american running back to run better when he doesn’t have an o-line to block and the entire defense is keyed in on him.

I think Thretton is a leader and a competitor. If I had to make a prediction right now I would say that Harvey is the starting running back early on but Thretton will surpass him midway through the season

by RunninUtes30 on May 16, 2011 12:59 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions

Not to mention

Cal is the only D-1 university in with a varsity rugby team. It’s kind of unfair when Cal has full access to the training facilities, doctors, and tutoring to attract the best rugby players in the nation while everyone else has to work on the budget and schedule of a club team. I’m surprised they’ve only won 18 of the last 20 national championships as opposed to 20/20.

by UtesNSooners on May 16, 2011 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions

"unfair"? ridiculous

What is unfair about medical attention and tutoring?? Doesn’t every school have that?!

Careful you don’t turn into a whiner like Stanford’s coach 10 years ago. Read this link, i promise you it’s worthwhile.

http://www.bearinsider.com/links/stanfurd/rugby/RugbyEmails.html

Also, welcome to the Pac-12.

by ginfizzbear on May 18, 2011 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions

Yes unfair, or you could call it a 'balance issue.'

No, other teams don’t have medical attention or tutoring. It’s a CLUB team at other schools which means it’s like joining a rec team. You get precisely ZERO benefits as a club team member. Missed class for a game? Too bad, you’ll just have to figure out what you missed. Got hurt in the game? Good luck rehabbing that knee by yourself!

I know guys aren’t getting scholarships at Cal, but you’ve got to consider that top players are going to want to go to a place that actually cares about the sport enough to make it varsity. Hence, a competitive advantage. I don’t see that advantage lasting forever, BYU and Utah are getting better at Rugby due largely to the rise in popularity of high school rugby in the state. I think/hope that you’ll see it as a varsity sport sometime in the future. But to deny that it’s a competitive advantage smacks of homerism and blindness.

And by the way the Stanford Rugby coach was and is right…you just can’t see it because you’re a Cal fan. And your coach completely lacked class in his response. The way things are it’s like Cal Football playing against a high school team. Enjoy that trophy! You guys ‘earned’ it.

by NC Ute on May 18, 2011 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions

Whoa

very interesting response. You seem to be assuming that I am unanalytical homer, and it’s ironic that you jumped to that conclusion. I completely disagree with your take on the Stanford’s coach response, and I’ll explain why.

Well it is now news to me that not every school provides tutoring and a medical benefits. As coach Clark once said in an interview with Si regarding varsity status, ""Other than the letters on our players’ sweaters, what does that really get us? It allows us some admissions help and affords us some things that go along with a high-performance program: access to tutors, medical staff and the weight room. But we don’t give scholarships, and everything we have we’ve built ourselves." Those 2 benefits alone does not explain a major competitive advantage that Cal has built over Stanford and other schools. 18 National championships? SOLELY because of medical attention and tutoring? That sort of winning tradition comes with a coaching and recruiting. Besides, Stanford students have PLENTY of resources, both medical and educational, which comes with small class size and a private education. It’s not a sink or swim environment there; in fact, it’s the opposite, across the student body. It’s clear you lack a fundamental understanding about student life at Stanford, which is fine, and not a slam at all; you didn’t go to the school. i am glad to see that BYu and Utah are looking to add it as a varsity sport soon. You may be interested to know that poor little non-varsity-status BYU beat Cal in a National Championship game recently. Yep, that is a huge, unsurmountable advantage having those medical and tutoring checkups.

You are asking Cal to apologize for building a good program. Well, while you’re at it, ask USC to apologize for its football record, and the Celtics to apologize for its banners. You and I have a completely different understanding of what sport is. you just. Don’t. Forfeit.
As for pulling the “classy” card endemic to so many message board posters, well, if you think that was an unclassy remark, you are entitled to your opnion. Clark was entitled to his, and whether or not it meets your standards of decorum is really irrelevant. But I will say to abandon a series in sport that spans decades, for those reasons, was profoundly a disappointing coaching decision.

by ginfizzbear on May 18, 2011 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions

Agree

I agree that the forfeit was a punk move. Utah didn’t forfeit a football game all those years we were playing in the old stadium that looked like a poor high schools field to BYU when they were winning National Championships and playing in their palace stadium. We took our lumps, moved forward, and improved.

However, being a varsity sport carries with it far more than just the tangible qualities mentioned (medical, facilities, tutoring) it carries with it the cache of being one of the only schools to care about the sport you’re passionate about as a recruit player or coach. Not to mention there is the ability to sell it as a one of the few schools being heavily scouted by the pros over seas.

by H2O_UTE on May 18, 2011 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions

Exactly

Utah didn’t quit after all that assraping. Now look at you guys. You’re a darkhorse favorite to win the division in the PAC TWELVE for God’s sake, and BYU is off playing with itself in its own little sandbox.

by ginfizzbear on May 18, 2011 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions

I don't begrudge Cal for having an advantage in Rugby

Why should Cal apologize for being successful? Sure being a varsity program has helped them be successful over a club team like the U, but I don’t see that as being the main issue.

If teams want to be as good as Cal in rugby, they should pressure their schools into granting them Varsity status. Rather than lowering Cal’s program so other schools can compete, it’d seem the better option would be for schools like Stanford,Utah,UCLA,BYU,Arkansas St,etc to raise their own standards. It isn’t like Cal is somehow preventing other schools from following in their footsteps by making Rugby a varsity sport. I’m tired of the “lets lower the bar” philosophy that is slowly being adopted in America so “everyone can compete”.

Schools have a choice, they can remain a club team, or they can be a varsity team. If Rugby is important to Utah/BYU/Stanford etc they should put up or shut-up. Cal made the choice that Rugby was important to them, and good for them for doing so.

by RunninUtes30 on May 18, 2011 4:57 PM MDT up reply actions

Spoken like a God-fearing American

that is well-said, and more fully develops a point I hinted at when I commended BYU and Utah for venturing into varsity club status.

by ginfizzbear on May 18, 2011 6:00 PM MDT up reply actions

Also, Rugby fans, the nat'l title natch is this weekend

Cal v BYU. It’s on ESPN3 saturday night and braodcast at 7 am Sunday (I believe) on ESPNU. Please send your positive brainwaves into your viewing screen of choice and help Cal defeat the Zoobs! you don’t want BYU to win, do you??

by ginfizzbear on May 18, 2011 6:05 PM MDT up reply actions

I don't want BYU to win...

Unfortunately I can’t pull for Cal to win either. I’m holding a grudge after that debacle on Sat. xD

by NC Ute on May 18, 2011 9:17 PM MDT up reply actions

I understand the Rapture is on Saturday

which means the entire BYU side will be spirited away, so they are planning to forfeit. ha ha

by ginfizzbear on May 18, 2011 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions

Wrong religion ;)

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by CrimsonUte on May 19, 2011 8:36 AM MDT up reply actions

You know the match is being played in Utah?

Utah residents don’t have to send their positive brainwaves. They can go to the game for a reasonable price. Tickets are still available through Rio Tinto’s website.

by Ute in DC on May 19, 2011 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions

And your coach completely lacked class in his response.

Sorry, buddy. You lose right there. Your response is exactly that of a furd. Coach Clark was dead-on: you NEVER quit or forfeit. If you do, you may as well just hang up your jersey and go home. And him calling out the panty-waist furds was actually very restrained. He could (and should) have mocked their foppish fancy-lad ways.

And please, lose the envy and bitterness. It looks horrible on you.

I'm thinking of having a little party down in Newport.

by SoCal Oski on May 18, 2011 7:23 PM MDT up reply actions

I agree that you don't quite or forfiet due to a competitive disadvantage...

But, sportsmanship continues off of the field and leaking a snarky letter between coaches is the definition of classless. Clark can think what he wants about the ‘Furd’ coaches decision, but keep it between the two of you.

I played rugby in high school, it was my school’s first year fielding a team and we had to play Highland ( a team with multiple national championships) They destroyed us but we played hard till it was over then went home and licked our wounds.

I don’t begrudge Cal having an advantage, I just find it ridiculous that Cal jokers act like you’re all that when you have such a glaring advantage. It’s like SEC football teams talking trash because they beat a Sun Belt team. It’s just pathetic.

by NC Ute on May 18, 2011 9:15 PM MDT up reply actions

Saying Cal has an advantage is not a knock on Cal

Seems to me, Cal fans are a little overly sensitive when people say that Cal has an advantage for being a Varsity team.

There’s no denying that having access to medical, and training that other teams don’t is a major advantage.

There’s no denying that being one of the only actual Varsity team gives an advantage as far as luring recruits. As was pointed out earlier being a Varsity team, shows your team is serious about the sport, and, especially in niche sports like rugby, having your sport taken seriously is a major draw.

Now none of that is a knock on Cal, it’s just a statement of facts. As the Miami Heat are going to prove when they lose to the Bulls, just because you have the best, or one of the best collections of talent, doesn’t mean you are guaranteed to win. Utah and Boise State have proved that on many occasions. There are other things to go into it. Coaching, and desire are both big factors.

Cal deserves a ton of praise, for taking Rugby serious enough to make it a Varsity sport. I really wish Utah and BYU would do the same. Sadly Rugby is never going to break into the top 4 in the US, which is too bad, as people are missing out on a great sport, (And I’m only new to watching it), but I wish that it would at least get more focus on a collegiate level, and Cal deserves praise for being in front of that train.

However I agree, that the Coach Clark was classless for leaking those emails. Sure Stanford never should have forfeited, but those emails should have stayed in house. That was a classless move by Clark, but don’t take the comments that Cal have a built in advantage over the majority of the country, as a knock on Cal.

by UnHoly Ram on May 19, 2011 8:10 AM MDT up reply actions

It's not a knock on Cal...every other team should aspire to it.

But realistically no one involved in the sport has any say whatsoever on whether it goes varsity. We wanted it to be varsity 10 years ago when I was still playing. But you have to admit, it gets annoying when a team with a built in advantage like call Cal crows about ‘18 National Championships! ZOMG!!’

by NC Ute on May 19, 2011 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions

Does anyone know why Utah/BYU don't make it varsity?

I know for High school in the state, at least 50% of all schools have to participate in a sport in order for it to be Varsity eligible. This is why Highland High is also a club team.

Is there anything like that keeping it from being Varsity for Utah/BYU?

by UnHoly Ram on May 19, 2011 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions

Well, there is title IX...

but that shouldn’t be too much of an obstacle considering that they have womens rugby as well. I know that BYU has a women’s team but I’m not positive about Utah. I think more likely than not it’s a funding issue. One of the reasons Cal has a varsity team is that it gets good support from donor specifically for rugby.

by NC Ute on May 19, 2011 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions

The Golden Bears

I am no rugby expert either. However, we beat Cal in rugby a couple of months ago.

I had also expected Thretton to pull an Earl Campbell and run over some Bears as a preview to the 2011 season. He is a big back and reminds me of Asiata. Perhaps he can play fullback?

by Utah-UCLA alum on May 16, 2011 1:17 PM MDT reply actions

not really.....

The Cal team we beat was a skeleton crew in a meaningless tournament without regulation rules being used. Its actually sad that the Utes declared themselves “national champs” after this. Trust me, whenever Cal cares enough, we can’t beat them.

Formerly SportsInUtah
Follow me on twitter: @BigBenSportsGuy

by BigBenSportsGuy on May 16, 2011 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions

Hardly skeleton or meaningless

Give your guys credit. That match was in the Sevens – a decidedly different game than the standard XV, but still real and still hard. Cal didn’t short-arm their team or that tournament, and your boys just beat us straight up. That’s nothing to downplay.

As for the rest of all this talk, well, Cal Rugby is the class of the collegiate scene right now, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other very good sides. Air Force, BYU, and your guys too come to mind.

In any case, I give your boys better than a puncher’s chance of showing up in the 1 or 2 spot in the south, so I wouldn’t be surprised by that.

I'm thinking of having a little party down in Newport.

by SoCal Oski on May 18, 2011 7:12 PM MDT up reply actions

until proven otherwise...

I will expect Utah to win the south. There’s some good teams, but I believe the Utes can win and I believe they will until stats show otherwise.

by Classless Ute on May 16, 2011 2:42 PM MDT via mobile reply actions

If USC is the biggest threat to Utah in the south...

I don’t see any reason why we don’t win the PAC-12 South. Here is my reasoning: USC is our inagural game into the PAC-12, so it’s a BIG game. I see it playing out similar to the way things played out a few years ago at Michigan. USC will be a huge focus for a team who plays with a chip on their shoulder and has something to prove. As for Arizona State, I won’t believe the hype until proven otherwise. I honestly feel that Arizona is a bigger threat than Arizona State will be, but I could be wrong. If Utah plays good football and doesn’t let the national hype get to their heads like they did last year, they can win the PAC-12 South.

by GatorUte on May 17, 2011 6:59 AM MDT reply actions

Nose Bleed

I have got 4 not so choice tickets for that game. The University of Utah Alumni Association is also having a tailgating party before the game.

It will be an interesting game, and I am not going to make any predictions. The men of troy are going to be tough with all that talent and Barkley.

Hopefully we can pull a ’72 Dolphins type ground attack with our new pro-style O.

by Utah-UCLA alum on May 17, 2011 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions

The USC* visitor's section is awful

Visitors are behind the peristyle, no further upfield than the goal line, and the viewing angle is terrible. It’s better to sit high up in the USC* section, say at the west end zone.

*asterisk assigned for lack of institutional control!

by ginfizzbear on May 18, 2011 8:23 PM MDT up reply actions