Are the Utes bold enough for the Pac-12?
It's not hard to see why this upcoming season is going to be unlike any other. Utah is going to see not only an uptick in competition, but really a far more competitive mindset on the opposite sideline.
That's not to say coaches in the Mountain West didn't want to win, they did, but I think most those programs understood their limitations. Fans in Wyoming aren't gunning for an undefeated season. Just getting to seven or eight wins on a consistent basis would be considered a successful run for the Cowboys.
It's a bit different in the Pac-12. Certainly there are programs whose history dictates scaled back expectations - but on a whole, the goal is much greater and that type of drive changes the dynamics of each conference game.
Of course, no program is going to tolerate losing seasons. That's not the point of this post. But I believe coaches in the Mountain West can get away with a bit more than their Pac-12 counterparts overall. There are exceptions, obviously, like Washington State - who still haven't fired their head coach after he's gone 5-32 in three seasons - but it's limited to the very bottom of the conference.
In the Mountain West, Steve Fairchild can go 7-6 his first season and then 3-9 the last two seasons and still probably not hit the hot seat until after this season. Certainly he could get the ax at the end of the year, but I think that would take pretty much a winless season in Fort Collins.
That type of dynamic alters the overall context of a game and subsequently a season.
With more equalness in this conference, each game becomes less assurable. The playing field is more leveled and it takes a bit more skill, and yes, even luck, to come out victorious.
In the Mountain West, that was a rarity most of the time. Yes, there were games that were closer than they should have been (New Mexico, '08) and games Utah lost they had no business losing (UNLV, '07) - but on the whole, at least half the conference slate was filled with teams the Utes could easily overpower and, at least the last six or so seasons, that's exactly what they've done.
They didn't need to try anything cute or bold to win the game. Most of the time they just let their talent on the field dictate the flow of the game and, through sheer skill, wore the opposition down in the third and fourth quarters.
Now against programs like BYU, TCU and even Air Force, when they were equally matched, the games often came down to one or two plays - possibly a bold play call that opened things up. Sometimes, though, it was the lack of creativity by the offensive coaches that maybe kept a game closer than it should have been.
There are two examples that illustrate this point and both, coincidentally enough, are losses to the BYU Cougars.
The first happened in 2006. Utah entered the rivalry game as big underdogs to the Cougars and rightfully so, as BYU had already locked up the Mountain West Conference title and the Utes were ambling through a pretty ho-hum season.
Early in the game, the Cougars looked every bit the favorite as they opened up a 14-0 lead in the first quarter.
At that point, the game was on the brink of turning into a blowout. Then the turning point. Facing a 4th down, the Utes set up for a 24-yard field goal and ran a fake. They got the first down and then eventually scored to pull within 7.
The game completely changed from that point on and Utah was able to claw their way back into it and even held the lead for part of the second half (and final minute before...well, I won't get into that due to painful memories...).
Sure, it was a loss (a painful one at that), but that call was genius. Utah couldn't afford three points, not when momentum was clearly on BYU's side. And maybe it was the most predictable gutsy call in college football history - but it changed the entire course of that game.
The other example is from the following rivalry game, when Utah went down to Provo and lost to BYU by seven, after, like in '06, holding a lead very late in the game.
Much of the displeasure with that performance, compared to a year earlier, completely fell on the coaches' lack of creativity offensively. The team ran a predictable and boring offense and didn't do much of anything to utilize Brian Johnson or the running game. In fact, there was a sequence early in the game after the Utes intercepted a Max Hall pass deep in Cougar territory where they completely fell apart and gave the ball back on an interception.
Nothing was gained from receiving the ball at BYU's 16. Not a touchdown, not even a field goal.
The game would plod on and neither team could do much on the offensive end, though the Cougars would eventually find the end zone late in the game to seal the win.
One of the biggest knocks against former offensive coordinator Andy Ludwig was his often conservative play calling. There were definitely moments where the playbook was opened up and the team actually played very boldly (I'm thinking the 2009 Sugar Bowl), but overall, it seemed there were a lot more games like BYU in 2007 than even BYU in 2006.
My point in all of this is that with games against more competitive teams, sometimes it takes imagination and boldness to take it to the next level. Are our coaches ready for that? Or are they going to approach these next few seasons with a more conservative mindset because they don't want to run the risk of overstretching?
It's a tough question to answer. But I look at the three most successful Pac-10 teams of the last 10 years and I see one common link - SC, Oregon and Stanford have been more daring on offense than conservative. The Ducks especially had no problems opening their playbook throughout the last couple of seasons and shaking things up.
That mindset has done them well and has easily made them the most feared team in the conference.
Will Utah emulate that or are they going to turn themselves into an Arizona or Cal clone? And let me be clear here, I am not knocking either program. Both have had some impressive victories over the last few seasons, however, neither program has risen to the top, at least consistently, of the Pac-10.
Arizona, which has been known more for its defense under Mike Stoops, appears to have a ceiling of 8-wins and Cal, though coached by an offensive guy, seems a bit more tentative now than they did maybe at the beginning of the Jeff Tedford era.
What both these programs have in common is that they're good - but not great. They'll win seven or eight games, maybe upset a team here or there, but rarely do more than that.
Which I guess is kind of ironic, because the mindset calls for much more than that, as I said earlier. I'm sure Cal fans are happy with the job Tedford has done overall - but the last four seasons? Probably not nearly as content as they were with the first four.
Arizona fans like Mike Stoops and the passion and intensity he's brought to their program, but you're only going to tolerate 7-wins for so long before you want more.
So what path will the Utes choose?
Like I said, it's a tough question to answer. Certainly Kyle Whittingham is more conservative in nature than a guy like Chip Kelly - most defensive-minded coaches are. But it often takes a bit of boldness and swagger to make that leap to the next level.
Utah in the Sugar Bowl was not conservative. They didn't play that game conservative at all. They ran an up-tempo, no-huddle offense that put Alabama on their back feet. You didn't see much of that the last two seasons. The Utes weren't excruciatingly conservative and there were glimpses of balls to the wall offensive play calling (Iowa State) - but then there were other games, like against Air Force, TCU and Notre Dame, where the team was more boring than watching C-SPAN.
Ultimately, both Whittingham and Norm Chow will make the final call. Chow has been coaching against Pac-10 defenses for almost a decade now and he knows what works and what doesn't. Hopefully he'll know when to be creative and when to pull back.
Because even Chip Kelly understands you can't go bold all the time. But it doesn't hurt to do it every so often.
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K-gun, The New England Patriots, 2009 Sugar Bowl
I like an offense that is offensive. The Buffalo Bills were intimidating and scary running their K-gun with Jim Kelly. New England should have went undefeated when Tom Brady passed for his 50 TDs out the no-huddle they ran all year. And the Utes handed the Crimson Tide their heads in the 2009 Sugar Bowl. Man was that beautiful. I could watch the 1st quarter over and over again (and have).
While I certainly don’t advocate a go-for broke approach to every game, every series, every play. I would like us to be creative like we were in the 2009 Sugar Bowl, like we were in the 1997 Runnin’ Utes road to the NCAA championship when we out game planned the Arizona Wildcats!
Coach Whit and Coach Chow should read Sun tze’s the Art of War.
Keep the game plan fresh and creative you will be able to defeat ‘superior’ opponents (talent) on the field.
Note: Against TCU I thought we would come up with some new wrinkle but we didn’t.
This is one thing I think Urban Meyer definitely did better.
On offense, Meyer had a go-for-the-jugular attitude. Especially in 2004, Utah was not in danger of last second heroics from opposing teams because they kept scoring until they were out of reach.
With Whittingham’s offensive coordinators, it has felt too often like Utah was playing not to lose. Sometimes when they’re up a touchdown or two, they start going with very plain-vanilla, predictable play calling. It’s like the offensive equivalent of the prevent defense.
I think it’s probably the difference between a defensive-minded and offensive minded coach, but I always start to feel uneasy when Utah eases up a little on offense at the end of a game when the margin is not that broad.
I keep accidentally eating my pets. Maybe I should get something less appetizing, like a cat instead of a Twinkie.
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
Future Money and Recruiting Will Play a Huge Part of This
This is something that will take years to fully answer, not a single season, and I know most of you know that. You consider that Utah, TCU, and TDS were the Oregon, USC, and Stanford of the MWC ( Air Force doesn’t count since their recruiting is so different and limited. ) If you’re a player in the MWC recruiting pool, you WANT to go to Utah, TDS, or TCU. They have the money, they have the facilities, and they have the better teams. Same thing in the PAC, you WANT to go to USC, Oregon, and Stanford.
Utah’s success in the past against larger schools has come, I believe, not through superior “talent” but through superior coaching and work ethic on the players’ part. No, we don’t have the athletics budget, stadium size, or training facilities the other PAC schools have, so I think that “blue-collar” team mentallity will stay intact for the time being ( and I like that. ) Committing the top prospects will still be hard, but we’ll get the good players ( not the “great” ones, ) because they’d rather play for us than ride the bench at USC.
If we keep that work ethic I think we’ll stay basically competitive, let’s say averaging 9-3 most seasons. What happens when the money starts flowing in and we build a respectable name in the PAC-12?
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Averaging 9-3 most seasons...
You haven’t even played a Pac-12 game, and yet, in your mind you’re already better than 9 of the other 11 teams. Apparently there’s just Oregon and Stanford standing between you and never-ending BCS glory. (USC being roughly on a par with the mighty Utes, most seasons.)
But not to worry. You’ll blow right by them lazy, half-witted Dux and Trees soon enough, due to your superior coaching and work ethic.
Your Hyperbole Is Almost Humorous
But I might be a little bitter too if my team only had one winning season since 2003. I’ll be happy to continue this discussion on 2 October.
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Thanks. Quasi-humor befits my hyperbole.
1-11-01 will be big. Your Pac-12 conference home-opener. Team will be jacked, fans will be jacked.
Getting drilled at home by a Pac-X mediocrity under such historic circumstances would be a real bummer.
binary fail...
Make that `1-11-11 will be big.’
Binary fail again...
Make that `01-10-11. God I would REALLY suck at coding…
This Sounds Familiar
Utah’s success in the past against larger schools has come, I believe, not through superior "talent" but through superior coaching and work ethic on the players’ part. No, we don’t have the athletics budget, stadium size, or training facilities the other PAC schools have, so I think that "blue-collar" team mentallity will stay intact for the time being ( and I like that. ) Committing the top prospects will still be hard, but we’ll get the good players (not the "great" ones, ) because they’d rather play for us than ride the bench at USC.
If you take out the word Utah and replaced it with “Oregon State,” this could describe just about every Beaver season preview I’ve ever read. Lunchpail work ethics and under-the-radar prospects won’t win the Pac-12, at least not with any regularity. You need more than that.
I'll Take That as a Compliment ( Intentional or Not )
OSU has been a perfectly respectable program and we’ve had some great games with them. No, the Beavers haven’t ruled the PAC standings with an iron grip, nor did I ever say Utah will. But a solid team that no one should take for granted that more often than not will end the season with good bowl game? Sure, what’s wrong with that? But somewhere “competitive” suddenly got translated to “unbeatable.”
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Not to mention
1 game away from the Rose Bowl in both ’08, and ’09.
It Certainly Wasn't Meant As An Insult
…since I’m a Beaver alum & season ticket holder.
There’s nothing wrong with being competitive, and I think the Utes can do that. But averaging 9-3 in the Pac-10 isn’t “competitive,” it’s elite. Since the schedule went to 12 games in 2006, average wins of Pac-10 programs, not including bowl games:
USC 9.4
Oregon 9.2
OSU 7.6
Cal 7.2
Arizona 6.6
Arizona St 6.4
Stanford 5.8
UCLA 5.4
Wash – 4
WSU – 3.2
Averaging 9 wins is tough, and takes an elite team, or at least a very good team with a couple of elite years. Another thing to remember is that you’re now playing 9 conference games instead of 8, so you’re losing a non-conference game, which may (or may not) replace a buy-a-win from the FCS. And while the top half of the Mountain West has certainly had a number of very good (and occasionally elite) teams, it also has had a lot more truly bad teams than the Pac-10; a few more guaranteed wins, if you will. The Pac-10’s never had more than two of those, and usually just one.
If you ask me where I think Utah falls in 5 years from now, I would guess they’d average 7-8 wins with the likes of Oregon State, Cal and Arizona (or whomever occupy those roles at that point).
by Sahr on Jun 29, 2011 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good Numbers There
And looking at those, I can definitely see how a 9-3 forecast looks arrogant. I would have guessed USC and Oregon averaging about 10.5 wins a season with OSU and Cal somewhere between 8.5 and 9.5 so, yes, I guess I was a little off. And yes, the MWC bottom dwellers certainly were a few guaranteed wins.
For pure academic purposes, what do you think the lasting effect of two additional teams will be on the W/L records through the conference? Now that you’ll never play the whole conf in a single season, do two extra teams mean a larger polarization between the powerhouses and the doormats?
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Not Sure Why It Would
You’re still playing over 80% of your possible conference opponents, and I don’t think that you’re likely to see a North-South power split to the same extent you did in the Big Twelve. Yes, you’ve had a highly dominant team in USC in the mid-00’s, and Oregon seems to be on top of the world right now, but all of the other teams have the ability to compete, and have done so recently. The last team to go to the Rose Bowl other than USC and Oregon? Current conference doormat Washington State.
Starting with the 2000 season, eight of the twelve teams in the new Pac-12 have been to BCS games, and two of the others have won conference co-championships. The two that haven’t done either are Arizona and UCLA, who aren’t exactly little sisters of the poor. All of the teams in the Pac-12 have the ability to be competitive on at least a semi-regular basis; I don’t see any reason this changes.
"averaging" 9-3 over the next 5 seasons would probably make you the best team in the Pac 12...
… I’m guessing that’s not happening.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Eh...not necessarily...
Utah could go 8-5 next year, 10-2 in 2012, 9-4 in 2013, 8-5 again in 2014 and 10-2 in 2015 and that averages out to nine wins a season. I don’t think that’d make Utah the best team in the Pac-12 – maybe not even the best in the South.
I think you Utes will be disappointed in Chow
He did well when he had players like Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart slinging it and, Reggie Bush and Lendale White running it.
When he didn’t—not so much.
His offenses at UCLA were the worst in the conference.
UCLA Was more a product of the Head Coach
Not the offensive coordinator.
Ludwig
His problem wasn’t just that he was conservative. It was that he also would try trick/bold plays at all the wrong times.
Can it be both?
I agree that Ludwig had a problem with getting too cute at times. Yet even when he got cute, it was kind of predictable to the point the play was sniffed out before it ever really developed.
Stanford and USC are not `bold', particularly.
They’re just good. They line up in relatively standard formations, doing relatively standard things, and mash the ever-loving crap out of you.
Oregon is `bold’, but then, they’ve also got athletes up the Wazoo. Is it some systemic slight of hand, or is it simply being good at what they do?.
Well you have to be good if you're going to be successfully bold.
Or you’re just throwing away possessions and ultimately giving the other team great opportunities.
As for SC, I think Carroll was good at playing boldly. He wasn’t the type of coach to go conservative too often and sure, he had the horses to just power ahead of most teams they lined up against – but so did Ohio State through a similar stretch. Yet I think you’d admit there was a dramatically different coaching philosophy between Tressel and Carroll and it played out on the football field.
To be bold isn’t necessarily to run the most trick plays. IMO, it’s also not pulling back when leading comfortably or going with a bit of unconventional (though not trickery) play calling at a certain moment.
That’s how I see it, anyway.
Pete Carroll is kind of a jerk, frankly.
He’s my jerk, now, being a Seahawk-Husky fan in Seattle. But he’s still a jerk.
I come by this assessment the old-fashioned way, from the losing end. My Huskies were down in LA, 5-6 years ago, getting the crap kicked out of them. Score was something like 34-0 with less than two minutes left, and of course we coughed the ball up. So Ol’ Pete, instead of politely running out the clock, he immediately calls for a 64-yard touchdown bomb, and then, after hitting it, he runs up and down the sidelines slapping butts as if he’d just won the Cotton Bowl. Instead of, you know, turning a 34-0 rout into a 41-0 rout, and rubbing our noses in it.
Like I say. Jerk.
The guy CAN coach, though. He knows what it takes to win big, generally. His priorities are clear, and on point. And he looks like a fun guy to play for. Quick-witted, energetic and personable. Honest and direct. Always compete.
What he had rolling at USC was a team could beat you in the biggest variety of ways. Flexible, and good at a lot of things. That’s what it takes, basically, in a league as deep and diverse as this one. Keep poking and prodding with this and that until you find something that they can’t stop. And then, win with it.
It is yet to be seen if he can coach in the NFL.
We’ve yet to seen if he can coach in the NFL the 2nd time around, or if he’ll be disgraced and prove he never should have left college, other than the fact he was trying to outrun USC Sanctions.
He showed a little last year, but you're right.
He’s still on the clock.
8-8 in the NFC West Isn't Showing much
Especially when you consider he did well his first year with the Patriots as well.
First years for New coaches in the NFL Tend to do one of two things, Success or Fail, but it’s not till years 2, and mostly 3 that you find out was it fluke or trend.
winning the NFC West in his first year ...
… and beating the reigning champs in the first round of the playoffs showed enough to be optimistic. Doing so with a mishmash roster of reject D-Linemen, injured O-Linemen and zero running game is downright impressive.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Yeah, Seattle's roster churn was historic.
Something like 250 roster moves? Wholesale slaughter.
Much needed, too, I might add. There was a lot of expensive dead wood that needed clearing, particularly including the worst NFL offensive line I ever saw. Since Pete got here, it’s been all about upgrading the O-line. The man clearly understands the obvious, that if your O-line sucks, you suck.
It was 7-9 in the NFC West, Actually
…but it’s still an improvement over the 5-11 season they had the year before. Yes, they were the first team to ever make the playoffs with a losing record, but they got better, and that’s the important thing. His roster turnover was the highest of any NFL team, but it improved the team. Hopefully, next year continues the improvement, although I could see a year of treading water before moving forward.
Out of curiosity, what’s the most common favorite team in Utah? Is it the Broncos, in the same way that the Seahawks are the most common favorite team in Oregon, but nowhere near a dominant fan base?
If you're good enough, it doesn't matter what you do.
Really, there are no philosophical short-cuts to the top of the Pac. If you want to win, get yourself a deep veteran roster sprinkled liberally with future NFL players, coach them up into an exquisite lather of fervid precision, and go to war. Line up against a WHOLE BUNCH OF TEAMS that consider themselves to be equally loaded and well-coached, and play it out. Go bold, go conservative, whatever. May the best team win.
Very few things are given, at the start of the Pac-12 season. USC is almost always pretty well-stocked with guys who really look the part. WSU, maybe not so much. But then, don’t count on that too heavily, either. WSU beat USC, back to back in 2000 and 2002. The teams that were good last season can be expected to be pretty darn good this season too, unless they aren’t. Complacency, the slightest whiff of smug self-satisfaction, is a sure-fire road to collapse and ruin. Having a great veteran QB helps, a little. Having a great defense and special teams helps a helluva lot more.
Here’s a little Pac-10 history, now that the era is over. In the 32 years of Pac-10 football, there were exactly TWO perfect seasons. One belonged to the 1991 Huskies and the other to the 2004 Trojans.
And tha-a-a-at’s all, Folks!
It can be done. It has been done. But don’t hold your breath…
In the other 30 seasons, the eventually champion (or co-champion) had at least one tie (USC ’79) or one loss (9X), or 2 losses (17X), or 3 losses (8X), or 4 losses (4X). Or even 5 losses. USC was a co-champion in 1993 at 7-5 (6-2 in conference), and went on to play in the Freedom Bowl. You might even remember the game. They beat the Utes 28-21.
Now… if you want to get all nit-picky about it, the perfect 2004 Trojans were investigated by the NCAA and sanctioned over the Reggie Bush deal (among other things), and ultimately had a couple of their 2004 wins `vacated’. But whether you give them credit for 11 wins, or 13, on the field, they definitely got it done, out-scoring their 13 opponents 496-169, for an average score of 38-13.
Not so coincidentally, the 1991 Huskies were ALSO investigated and sanctioned, but no wins were ever disputed. On the field they ALSO completely mauled all comers, out-scoring their opponents 495-115. That averages out to a score of 41-10, over a 12 game season.
38-13? 41-10? Take your pick, that is some serious and sustained butt-kicking.
Point being, if, after 4-5 games, you’re not routinely posting scores of 38-13 and 41-10, you might as well forget about going undefeated. Because evidently, that is what it takes. That is how good you must be, on average, to avoid getting bitten in the behind by somebody along the way.
Both of those dominant teams had close calls. Washington `just barely’ beat Cal on the road 24-17, and USC actually had to sweat out four close games (@Stanford 31-28, Cal 23-17, @Beavers 28-20, @UCLA 29-24). That’s riding the knife edge of `mediocrity’.
Because, unfortunately, `mediocre’ is the preferred national (BCS) definition of any one-loss Pac-10 team. At best, they’re definitely NOT National Championship Game Material. Those critical BCS `one-loss’ dispensations are reserved for SEC teams, or Big-10-12 teams. Or even, occasionally, a one-loss Big-East team, or an undefeated Non-AQ team like you guys used to be.
Unless it’s USC, of course. It’s USC and the Nine (now eleven) Dwarfs, after all.
That 1991 Husky team, that great and brutal machine that absolutely destroyed all comers by an average score of 41-10? The one and ONLY Pac-10 team to ever post a perfect season, unsullied by vacated wins? They were so mediocre (nationally speaking, not being USC) that they had to SHARE a national championship with a relatively mediocre Miami squad.
And that USC championship of 2004? Well, it’s gone, vacated as well. Gone with the wins…
In fact, in the entire history of Pac-10 football, there are only 4 national championships, three of them (USC `78, UW ‘91, USC ’03) shared 50-50 with some other team (Bama, Miami and LSU, respectively) and one (USC ’04) won outright, but since vacated. If you’re keeping score, that’s one half of one national championship every ten years. Conference of Champions indeed!
Nobody suggested undefeated.
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end.
by daedalus17 on Jun 28, 2011 8:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Good. That would be prudent.
I’m just saying, whatever you think you’re getting into, it’s probably going to be a lot harder than that.
In fact, it’s going to be hardest, deepest, nastiest conference in college football. It already was, before, you see, and now you’re making it better.
The schedule does break your way a bit, missing Oregon and Stanford, and playing in the weaker South. If you’re ready, try to take full advantage. It might be some years before the schedule breaks that way for you again.
Every win counts much more when every win is earned. I look forward to watching your guys chopping wood. It’s going to be a heck of a show!
note on that shared national championship with Miami
… UW played Miami in the Orange Bowl two years later – whipped them 38-20 – and broke Miami’s record 58 home win streak. the Pac 10 always appears to be the 2nd best conference – but time and again we prove our mettle in out of conference games and, time and again, fail to get recognized for the cannibalization that occurs in conference play.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Couple of thoughts...
Arizona, which has been known more for its defense under Mike Stoops
Though Stoops is a former D-coordinator, this is not true in any way shape or form. Stoops brought the Texas Tech system with him and UA has been a top offensive team in the Pac 10 year in year out
But I look at the three most successful Pac-10 teams of the last 10 years and I see one common link – SC, Oregon and Stanford have been more daring on offense than conservative.
Oregon – yes. SC and Stanford? I’m not exactly clear on what you mean by “daring” – but both have run smashmouth prostyle offenses that abhor trick plays. SC under Carroll was a little aggressive on fourth downs, but – outside of just having awesome players – there hasn’t been much daring in how the conduct offense.
If anything, Utah doesn’t need imagination to succeed in the Pac 10. They need an identity – a specialty – that separates them from the pack and gives them an opportunity to have an edge in recruiting specific types of players.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Who's the best defensive team in the PAC 12?
If nobody’s laid claim to that, Utah will be happy to claim that as our identity.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
I would say USC, ASU and Cal are more commonly the “Defense” teams of late.
I would include Oregon in that group, but then we’ll have another conference-wide debate about Overall vs. Per Play blah blah blah.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-N-A-R-K-Y"
"If Lache Seastrunk is the POTG against LSU, I will formally quit ATQ." - Axemen23 on 6/21/2011
Agree - I think ASU and Cal will battle it out for that title...
… and Oregon will mostly likely be the best in terms of big plays.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Whoever is at the top of the heap these days.
Stanford, Oregon on top. Cal and ASU in the ballpark. UW coming on. Arizona, something of an annual mystery. OSU and UCLA maybe slipping a little. USC maybe slipping a lot. WSU pretty bad.
Offense gets all the ink, but defense is always the #1 barometer for Pac-X contention. Always. And the mantle of #1 defensive badass moves around. Everyone aspires to it. You earn it season by season with your personnel and their play.
Just because you want a great defense, doesn't mean you're going to get it.
Everybody recruits to defense, with an equal fervor. Everybody coaches it up, with all the intensity they can muster. What separates the great from the good from the mediocre is simply what’s on the roster. How many great juniors and seniors do you have? How many of your 2*-3* recruits have you coached up into bonafide NFL prospects? How many of your 4*-5* NFL prospects can you hang onto for more than two seasons? Where are your particular holes, and how bad are they? If one of your holes is at defensive tackle, you’re probably in big trouble. How’s your depth? How’s your depth? How’s your depth? It’s absolutely critical.
Everybody recruits to defense, with an equal fervor.
I know for a fact that is not true. There are coaches who put more of an emphasis on offense (Mike Leach, for instance) and then there are coaches who put more of an emphasis on defense (Utah’s own KW, for instance). While all coaches strive to find some balance between the two, all coaches lean one way or the other. It appears most of the PAC 10 coaches have, in the past, tended to lean offense, if Gekko is correct about Stoops. Riley is the one exception that jumps to mind, as OSU appears to pride themselves on defense first.
Of the current PAC 12 coaches, I’d rank them this way:
Offensive coaches:
Stoops (if Gekko is right), Erickson, Kelly (and Belotti before him), Kiffin, Neuheisal, Sarkesian
Defensive coaches:
Whittingham, Riley
Mostly Balanced (or I don’t know enough about them):
Tedford, Wulff
Unknowns (because they’re new):
Embree, Shaw. They’re both offensive guys, as assistants, but that doesn’t always translate.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
It's doesn't translate at all, for any of them.
Even if they have an offensive background, they know their bread and butter is defense. Erickson, Neuheisel and Sakisian (at least) we’re all QB’s in college, and QB coaches, but as Head coaches they still focus on defense. Because they know that’s the only way to win anything. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.
The funny thing is how none of these three former QB’s have yet to roll out a very good offense, but Erickson and Neuheisel can at least both take credit for rolling out some nasty defenses, and Sark looks to be building a pretty good one.
I think you need to be a little more refined than just HC "tendencies"...
… Coaches are looking for a strength to build and identity around and then they recruit for it. For example, Stanford has tried to emphasize size and toughness on the o-line. Oregon has tried to emphasize speedy playmakers in the run game and the middle of the D. Washington is trying to hang its hat on a developing d-line as a point of emphasis on D. OSU likes to look for slashers who play hybrid RB/WR roles. USC likes to look for the best guys available and build up their cores in the backfield an in the LB corps.
You could call Sarkisian an “offensive” coach – but then you can look and see that he has one of the highest paid defensive coordinators in the nation. You could call Stoops a defensive coach, but then you can look and see the prowess of his spread passing game dating back to Willie Tuitama.
In the Pac 12, your specialization has to be more than just offensive of defensive.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
I would go further...
I don’t think specialization works in this league. Not for long. Balance and depth rules the day. The more balance you bring, the more you can do, the more adept your game to game adjustments, the more you win.
To the extent you specialize, hang your hat on a particular identity, the more balanced team is going to take away your specialty and leave you exposed.
Certain few things are given. You need a defensive front. You need an O-line. Lacking either, you’re in trouble. If you excel in both, you’re in pretty good shape. Once again, this is no big secret. Everybody is recruiting big, nasty guys like maniacs, and rightly so. They make the football world go `round.
But once you get past a certain floor-level of decent line play, the `price of admission’ as it were, that all sort of washes out. That’s when the `little’ guys step up and make the ultimate difference.

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