The beauty of the unexpected
by JazzyUte on Sep 18, 2011 10:09 PM MDT
in Holy War
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PrintI don't think anyone expected a 54-10 rout Saturday night. It might be the most unexpected outcome in the rivalry's history since the Utes dropped 57 on BYU in 1988.
Generally, these games aren't blowouts. Normally, they come down to the fourth quarter, a final play and a few sequences that ultimately decide the game. Saturday, this one was over pretty much at the start of the third quarter. In fact, I don't know if a game against the Cougars has been so quickly decided in either's favor so fast in the last 20 or so years. Even in 2004 and 2008, BYU put up more of a fight and kept things interesting for a bit before wilting away.
Not so Saturday. The Utes completely dominated the second half. The sold out LaVell Edwards Stadium crowd sat stunned for most the game and you've got to wonder if it left Mr. Edwards himself wishing the stadium didn't bear his name.
Certainly this was the worst performance BYU has experienced at home since Edwards' first season in 1972 and that includes the three-year stretch of awfulness that defined the Gary Crowton era.
It was the worst loss to Utah in modern rivalry history.
And when this game kicked off around 7:20 Saturday night, I don't think anyone thought such a thing could happen.
Now the Utes have momentum heading into their bye week (and the home conference opener against Washington) and the Cougars are left with a lot more questions than they had before this massacre began.
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I had our BYU game down as a loss...
but after seeing this… Beaver hope! Just need to keep it close in the first half and we might win a(nother) game this year, yaaaaaaaay
I'd consider Oregon St to be on the same level as Ole Miss
and BYU needed some late heroics to win down there.
Besides, it seems like Mike Riley’s teams get better as the season progresses.
I know I’m not taking the Oct. 29th game for granted.
No no no
Please overlook us and spread that attitude to the team 0: )
To think, all the lopsided games these two have played
and this is the 3rd-largest margin of defeat in this rivalry.
We beat them 49-0 in 1922, and they beat us 55-7 in 1983.
I believe this is the beginning of the end of Roscoe's tenure at BYU.
…although you could possibly trace it back to the Utah St. game.
This loss is going to leave a bitter taste in the mouth of the fan base, even if they do end up going 8-4, which I think is likely…they have about as soft of a schedule as anyone could hope for in their first year of independence.
I don’t see how BYU fans can be satisfied with a team that has no heart. Turnovers can be somewhat attributed to coaching…but giving up like BYU did is all on the coach.
Sure they’re down 30-10…but Heaps then melted down on the ensuing drive. The BYU D, which had been stifling all day started giving way. The wheels came off…and the game wasn’t out of reach.
…and even if it was…have some pride. Don’t let a team humiliate you on your home field. Don’t let them get the practice squad in with 7 minutes remaining in the game.
I’ve always said that I thought Roscoe was a mediocre coach, who loses at least 1 win-able game every year. Was this game win-able? Won’t know until the season is over…but BYU has the talent to be more successful than they are. BYU fans see things through rosy glasses, but after a loss like that…the 9-3 seasons are going to get old.
Bronco's a good coach.
His teams are generally pretty good, his staff recruits well, and he’s turned that program around.
His “football takes a back seat to BYU’s mission” irritates a lot of BYU fans, but it’s a huge plus to his bosses and enough of the BYU faithful that things would have to get really bad before they call for his head. I mean, Crowton’s tenure was bad, but the on-field product wasn’t what lost him his job.
Regardless, BYU will finish no worse than 8-4, beat a crappy C-USA team in the Armed Forces Bowl, bring in some blue-chip LDS recruits on signing day, and the pride cycle will start all over again next offseason.
Not so sure about finishing no worse than 8-4...
Of course, their schedule does lighten up considerably, but there are still games that could trip them up – including Friday’s against UCF.
They should beat the Knights, and I think they will, but if they let this loss hang over them for a bit, it’s possible they fall to the Knights and that would put them at 1-3 on the season. I find it hard to see a scenario where they end the year 7-1. Not with ‘road’ games against TCU, Oregon State and Hawaii still remaining. They could lose all three of those games and be on the cusp of another 6-6 season.
UCF has to travel across the country on a short week.
BYU will dispatch them with relative ease.
Then they’ll go 2-1 or 1-2 in their 3 toughest games left and sleepwalk to victory through the others.
You sound almost as sure of you were that Saturday's game would be close...
I disagree. There is no sure thing with a team coming off an awful loss. UCF has offensive firepower and the ability to hang with the Cougars. If things get interesting or close, I could see BYU wilting.
Do I think they’ll win? Sure – but again, there is no sure thing with this BYU team.
As for going 2-1 or 1-2 in their 3 toughest games, maybe…but I could just as easily see them going 0-3.
Especially with all of them coming on the road. Let’s be honest, every team left is better than Ole Miss and the Cougars needed a lot of luck to even win that one.
To be fair, UCF is coming off a loo too.
The score may have been closer (much closer), but there is no such thing as a good loss to a Sun Belt team.
Hey, I think they beat UCF...
Just playing the Devil’s Advocate here on the statement that the Cougars are no worse than 8-4.
I disagree. I see a scenario where they are. This team doesn’t seem entirely emotionally strong at the moment.
Personally I think UCF Wins Friday
And have thought that all along. But I agree that the main disagreement is the “no worse than 8-4” thought. My personal belief is BYU loses to UCF, goes 1-2 against Utah State, Oregon State, and TCU, wipes up the poo poo platter of SJSU, NMSU, ISU, and Idaho, and finishes the season with a loss on the islands before beating a crappy CUSA team in the Armed Forces Bowl to end up with the exact same 7-6 as last year.
To top it off Heaps will pad his stas during the Poo Poo Platter and get the Heisman Hype going again this offseason.
Heisman hype is only among BYU fans...
The same fans who think BYU has a shot at a national championship during fall camp every year.
That's the only time of year that they have a shot at the national championship.
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
Roscoe is a good coach like McBride was a good coach...
There aren’t glaring mental errors like McBride made annually…
…but they’re becoming more evident as the seasons pass.
His inability to make 2nd half adjustments.
Losing an early season game that BYU is favored to win almost every year.
Difficulty with road games vs. average or better teams.
Players lacking MAFU ;-) …seriously though, they do seem to fold any time they’re down by more than 2 TD’s. Have you ever seen them come from behind?
Possible lack of emphasis on conditioning with his players.
Corny comments to the press & boosters that seem to indicate that he doesn’t take football seriously, and that likely trickles down through the program.
He does seem to be good at beating teams that rate below what the top 75 in the FBS, up until last year…but even that seems to be slipping.
I think BYU fans get fed up if 2012 ends in another 9-4 season…which is where I see this season headed as well (assuming losses v. TCU & possibly Hawaii or Oregon St. & a win in the Armed Forces Bowl). Looks good on paper, but won’t get you ranked…
I guess it depends on if the BYU fan base also puts football 5th.
Bronco has never won a game when trailing by 14 points or more...
So I actually agree with you. Bronco is not a bad coach. He’s nowhere near the level Crowton was and I think, as long as he runs a clean program down there, he’s set outside a complete collapse – BYU fans be damned.
The thing with Bronco is that he’s horrible in September. I mentioned before the game he was 1-5 in the third week of the season and now he’s 1-6. That’s an awful number. While he’s been able to bounce back every season, it’s really taken the luster out of their seasons in the past and with that loss coming against Utah and no conference title to play for, you’ve got to wonder what they’re left playing for right now.
Look at it this way: in 2006, 2007 and 2009, when they had an early season loss that derailed their BCS hopes, they still had two things to look forward to:
1. Win the MWC (they did that in ’06 and ’07)
2. Beat Utah (they did that in ’06, ’07, ’09)
Might not sound like much, but it’s a huge carrot for a team that now doesn’t have a BCS bowl to play for and certainly something that keeps every non-AQ team gunning for when they’re essentially eliminated two or three weeks into the season.
The Cougars now have nothing but pride to play for. They’re already locked into the Armed Forces Bowl against a meh C-USA season.
Are their fans going to show up? Will the players care? How does Bronco spin that?
In the end, unless attendance drops sharply, I don’t think the fans will have much say.
With that said, I think Bronco might just up and quit after a season or two when he realizes the program has nothing left to play for once they get past week three.
by JazzyUte on Sep 19, 2011 2:03 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree...kind of
Bronco is gone sooner rather than later IMO. He made comments about a very proud fan base in public. They really have a lot of pull. That, in and of itself, is forgivable. But when you come out right after that and lay an egg against your hated rival when you have an offense so good you take an extra 2 days off in fall camp, I really think the boosters will be considering a change is in order. Is it justified? Maybe, maybe not. But I think even they see now what we’ve seen all along: this guy has an amazingly huge ego that needs to be checked.
by Classless Ute on Sep 19, 2011 6:46 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Sooner rather than later.
Roscoe doesn’t seem like he truly enjoys coaching. If the Cougars join a major conference during the reshuffling, he might stick around. If not, I could see him quitting to do church work if things keep going as they are. It is apparent that he enjoys that aspect of the job much more than the stress of worrying about running a football team. His panicked and egotistical statements in public seem to come from an awkwardness with the whole coaching scene.
Taking two days off during fall camp is something that is hard to imagine. Conditioning is definitely a problem with this team. Guys looked winded during the first quarter.
He replaces the team slip-n-slide with a trip to the water park, and expects a different outcome. Classic!
public pressure
It also looks like somebody told Roscoe to knock it off with the t-shirt look. I’m guessing it was his wife or BYU officials.
Big ego?
"We were out-coached, out-played and basically out-executed from beginning to end," said BYU coach Bronco Mendenhall" -Daily Universe (BYU campus paper) today
He even claimed ALL responsibility for the loss personally. He said he felt that errors in execution (BYU’s six fumbles) reflect on their coaching.
I’ve heard him in person, and he is anything but arrogant. He’s defensive of people talking bad about his “boys,” and puts too much trust in the ability of his team, but that is not ego. To me, it’s just being attached to his players, and love is blind.
Yes, big ego.
He may claim responsibility, but only because he has to. To compare himself to Christ is quite a bit egocentric.
“As I stood in front of the Cougar Club (Thursday), it felt like I was in front of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.”
That also is a direct quote from Roscoe. Not only is his love blind, but so is his coaching, quarterback, and offensive coordinator. The dude got smoked and didn’t make any adjustments! He’s gone soon.
by Classless Ute on Sep 19, 2011 12:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I think the fans will have a lot to say, based on the points you outlined.
Something I never considered is how deflating losing to Utah early in the season would be to the fan base…especially when you have no other season “goals”. Every team needs an achievement to work toward…
BYU has nothing to look forward to…and every fan knows it.
This is a good comment
I was thinking the same thing. McBride was a good coach. After 10 years, however, it was apparent he couldn’t take us to the next step of being a national power, and we let him go after a good run.
I will always be grateful for what McBride did for Utah’s program, but he had to go in the end if we wanted something more.
Same applies to Bronco. He is a good coach – But BYU isn’t going to make the next step with him. They are incapable of making a mark on a national scale until they make some changes.
I picked up on that too
Ha ha
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
BYU Will struggle to get 6 or 7 wins.
This team quit. Now that they really have nothing to play for, what will stop them from Quitting again. They have no conference championships, no conference awards to play for. They can’t even win the State anymore.
TCU will be another loss. UCF should probably be the favorite and I’m expecting they’ll win. That will leave BYU. Obviously San Jose, New Mexico State, Idaho State, and Idaho are all wins. That will put BYU at 5.
Leaving the Hawaii, Oregon State, and Utah State games left. OSU gets better as the year progresses, and as Someone else said, I’d put OSU on the level of Ole Miss and BYU needed some help to pull that game out. Hawaii is on the islands and that always gives people fits. At best those two are tossups.
The Aggie game, BYU will have the revenge factor going on, but then again they had the revenge factor and the State championship still attainable for Us and it didn’t help.
8-4 isn’t a lock by any stretch, and honestly if BYU tailspins like I think they can/will, neither is bowl eligibility.
BYU didn't have anything to play for last season
and looked like a completely different team in the 2nd half of the season.
It was against a soft set of teams, but it wasn’t any worse than the schedule they have left this season.
What did Utah have to play for in 2007? They started the season 1-3. Nobody gave a bullshit line of “well, we aren’t playing for a BCS bowl or conference championship, might as well look ahead to 2008”. They improved, kept playing, and finished the season very well.
I know I’m defending BYU, and it’s not easy, but it was one game. Not to mention Bronco’s win-loss record is very close to Whit’s, and that’s not an accident. He knows what he’s doing, especially against inferior competition.
BYU Did have things to play for in 2010 just like we did in '07
They were actually in the running for 2nd place in the conference going into the Holy War and were able to change which bowl game they got to based on how they played. They had conference individual awards to play for as well. Don’t discount the individual recognition on a young teams psyche.
In 2007 even after being down 1-3 on the season they absolutely had stuff to play for. Even being down 1-3 they still had the Conference championship in site, and I believe had we beaten BYU would have won the conference championship. Especially when you consider that of those 3 early season losses only one of them was a conference loss.
They had a lot to play for, Boylen!
1. A bowl game. After their loss to USU, a bowl game wasn’t a sure thing.
2. A decent bowl game. After their loss to USU, a bowl game wasn’t a sure thing – but a better bowl game than the New Mexico Bowl was possibly with winning out.
3. A win in the rivalry. After their loss to USU, a rivalry win wasn’t a sure thing.
The only thing BYU has left to play for now is a bowl game. Everything else they can’t control. They’re locked into the Armed Forces Bowl (let’s be honest, slightly better than the New Mexico Bowl, but pretty crappy) and, of course, they have no rivalry game to play for.
You’d be surprised at how big of a carrot that game is for a team going through a difficult season. As a Ute fan, I’m sure you know exactly what I’m talking about – there were seasons in the McBride era that got off to awful or mediocre starts and the only thing left to play for was a win over the Cougars.
No different here.
And last year’s example is just one’s year. How’s it going to be EVERY YEAR when they lose in their first couple of games? 2010 could be ignored as a rebuilding year, with the thought process of returning back to the national scene a year later. Now they’re stuck in the same situation this year.
When do fans get tired of their seasons ending early? They could do it once every few years – but three or four in a row? I bet by that point, they’re scrambling for a conference.
For all the jokes BYU fans make about Utah going to the Vegas bowl...
The Armed Forces Bowl rotated between the 3rd and 4th best MWC Bowl.
2007 For Utah is a prime example
After starting 1-3 how many of us were just hoping for a bowl game and a Rivalry victory.
When Utah started rolling off victories, how many of us started thinking about winning the conference.
That's a good point...
Utah was playing for a conference title against BYU. Sure, they needed to beat the Cougars down in Provo and then BYU needed to lose to SDSU a week later, but it was still a possibility (fires had pushed back the Aztec-Cougar game until the end of the season).
Roscoe was already thinking about the next game during Q3.
In his post-game comments, Roscoe said that he was planning ahead to the next game during the third quarter. If the coach is not even trying to win, how can he expect his team to play with any fire?
I can’t believe Roscoe or any coach would admit such a thing in post-game comments.
Seems to be a trend for BYU This year.
3 quarters of the way through Fall Camp, Roscoe declared they had done well enough, and didn’t use the rest of the time.
BYU only played 1 half against Ole Miss
BYU only played 17 minutes against Texas
BYU only played 1 half against Utah
And now come to find out in the 3rd quarter Roscoe had seen enough and was no longer coaching the Utah game but planning for UCF.
A New Hope!
I still don’t feel like I have a read on Utah yet. I thought USC would be a good test, but USC is not looking down and we failed that test. I was beginning to question whether a bowl game was in jeopardy.
Our offense was horrible the first two games, but that might be in large part to learning a new system.
I expected BYU to be a game that would show us whether our offense would get some traction going, and become competitive in the PAC 10. As much as I plan to relish this lopsided win, it felt more like BYU imploding than Utah demolishing them.
The Washington game in two weeks should tell us a lot more about where we are. We need to win that game by a couple TD’s to be on track. 28-14 sounds about par.
The real test will be the next week. The Utah-ASU game should still determine the PAC 12 South. With USC ineligible, Utah still controls their own fate.
Last week I was on the brink of despair, ready to concede that a good season was not possible. With a move to the PAC 12 my criteria for a good season remain unchanged.
1) Beat BYU
2) Win the conference
3) Win a bowl game
2 out of three is a good season. All three is a great season. The forecast today is upgraded to a good season.
Busting the BCS from the inside now.
I wouldn't say we failed the USC test
Lining up for the tying field goal at the end of the game is not a failed test. It’s more like something the C – B range.
USC barely beat a Minnesota team that lost to New Mexico State and Miami of Ohio.
Granted the Syracuse win help their measure a bit, but who is Syracuse anyways?
Maybe the ACC sees something I don’t. Like basketball. Basketball is too depressing to watch anymore.
Busting the BCS from the inside now.
Looking Up
I agree with #UnHoly Ram. Although the SC game was disappointing, seeing USC continue to get better is a good sign…they look like a pretty solid team. I agree BYU more fell apart than Utah pwning them, however we showed continued strength on the Defensive side and real improvement on the Offensive side. The true test is the Arizona St, @ Arizona, etc… We can still get to the Pac12 championship game…which to me is the real measure of success for us this year. If we can get there and perform well then I will feel good about this season.
I'm tired of this, "BYU fell apart" horseshit.
A team doesn’t just “fall apart” on their little lonesome, someone MAKES them fall apart. That someone last Saturday was The University of Utah football team. It’s bad enough the local media tries to spin it and skirt around giving credit, but now we have Ute fans doing it too? Fuck that.
by -FeloniousMonk on Sep 19, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
...well, they did "fall apart"...
…but only because we caused it.
BYU fans who think they gave the game away are just looking for excuses.
Remember that the score was 10-7 in favor of BYU…after the 3 turnovers. Utah then outscored BYU 17-3 during a period of time when the TO margin favored BYU by +1.
So the momentum swung without the assistance of those 7 TO’s. The score was 24-10 with 9 minutes left in the 3rd quarter when that BYU kid muffed the kickoff…so while that might have been the nail in the coffin, it was hardly the difference in the game.
I don't know that "win the conference" is fair with this team.
Win the South, get to the title game, don’t get embarrassed, and I’d say we had a great year. Beating Stanford or Oregon with this team seems nearly impossible right now, especially on the road.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Sep 19, 2011 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
JAZZY
….Sorry I doubted your two-TD Utah win… Aparrently, that was conservative prediction…. Weeps for fallen cougs.
jazzy, one question
I love block u dearly. And what u have made it become. I just was wondering if u ever thought of putting the new posts at the top, which would eliminate scrolling all the way down especially when auto refresh hits. Its pretty bad on mobile going down reading then getting it popped back up to the top….. just a suggestion
by aUTmanAMi on Sep 19, 2011 11:20 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Just got mobile with data
And I think this would be a nice feature. Not that it would change my opinion or frequency on blockU, but maybe a feature worth looking into.
Although this appears to be the case on ALL sbnation sites – I wonder if we are stuck with this template regardless of Jazzy’s sway with the community. :)
Yeah, he would have to leave SBNation to do that.
I think that would be hard for him because they take care of a lot of the technical stuff and also take care of advertising.
Or you could request the change to the SB Nation staff
After all, this might be good for all blogs on the network.
Busting the BCS from the inside now.
That's a good idea
Block u is very nice website everthing you do for it and all the updates. Its works if you do it or not.
by Bountiful_Ute on Sep 19, 2011 12:28 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Go over to www.cougarboard.com ...look at their format, and then tell me if you think BlockU's format is a problem ;-)
…or even Utefans.net
All of them are awful when it comes to being able to comment. Ya’ll are spoilt! ;-)
I Think LES Needs a Name Change
How about Rice-Eccles South? RES2 for short?
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
Ever since it became initial-ized to L.E.S., I've referred to it as...
the LES Nessman Memorial Stadium. It’s fitting for a town lousy with Les Nessmans.
by -FeloniousMonk on Sep 19, 2011 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Back when Utah was unbeatable at LES (1993-2007), we fans called it Rice-Eccles Stadium South...
I think we should bring it back!
Does that mean RES was LaVell Edwards North
For BYU fans from 1996-2000.
Which BTW were the first 3 Holy Wars I went to.
The good old home field disadvantage...
And the days when it was Utah that would implode on an emotional setback under McBride.
Busting the BCS from the inside now.
Yeah, I'm sure they did call it that...
Though 1996-2000 is less impressive when you consider it was only three games.
1993-2007 was a string of six: 1993, 1995, 1997, 1999, 2003, 2005.
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