Drum & Feather will stay...for now
by JazzyUte on Jan 3, 2012 1:28 PM MST
in Football
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PrintThe University of Utah released this statement today concerning the Drum and Feather:
"The University of Utah and its athletics department periodically review the use of the circle and feather logo out of sensitivity for native tribes across the country as well as Utah fans. At this time, the athletics department will continue to use both the circle and feather and the block U logos."
Good news. It suggests that maybe KSL jumped the gun a bit - or that the backlash from Ute fans was so strong, the University had to pull back.
I'm a bit unsettled by the 'at this time' statement, but, for now, I guess I'll take it.
So, GO UTES!
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As a die-hard Ute fan (and graduate)
I don’t really care if they keep the drum-and-feather. If anyone in the (Native American) Ute Nation is offended, I say just get rid of it (I don’t know if anyone is). Block U is fine.
However, I’d get really ticked if it escalated to dropping the “Ute” name from the University and changing it to some furry critter mascot. Being a Ute means a lot to me. Being a drum-and-feather…not so much.
I’m curious if I’m alone in this way of thinking. What’s the group think?
Id like to keep things how they are but yes much rather drop drum & keep utes than drop both..losin utes would piss me off
by kodiek on Jan 3, 2012 1:53 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
If the D&F allows us to keep the name UTES, yes, get rid of it...
Hopefully this was just a major misjudgment on the school’s part and the denial of change was brought on by a ton of fan backlash.
Agreed as well
Dropping the D & F would suck, but I would get over it cause I like the block U too.
But if we stop being Utes, I’ll just take my football ticket money and go get Weber tickets. Graduated from there, so I’ll just go support them. They will still be Wildcats.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women. Especially BYU. - Conan the Barbarian (ok, maybe he didn't say the BYU part)
by U of Uman on Jan 3, 2012 2:55 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I think both are needed to reinforce the other
Outside of Utah and the alumni base people have no idea what a Ute is. At least the Drum (er, “Circle”) and feather provides some clue.
When I got my first vanity plate in Pennsylvania in the 80’s “UTE OWL” my neighbors would stop me and ask what the heck a UTE was. So there are maybe 6-8 people in Wilkes-Barre, PA that now know what a UTE is.;
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word" - Andrew Jackson
Also anyone heard any names surface on tge OC job..been really quiet for while now
by kodiek on Jan 3, 2012 1:57 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Just reading the murky tea-leaves
tells me Roderick is plan B if they can’t find a clear-cut better candidate. Dave Schram jumping to a non-BSC school so fast tells me he had no chance at the Ute OC job and was probably told that.
Part of me kind of hopes a 1-year mentorship from Chow should pay off and make Roderick a good candidate, thus not making the whole Chow hiring worthless (another OC could have gained a year of experience this year). Or maybe Chow decided he doesn’t have what it takes and let Kyle know that. In any case, I’m guessing Chow’s opinion comes in to play under the table with Kyle.
“Worthless” might be a bit rough. I suppose showing the country that a high profile OC can come to a program like Utah and land a HC job within a year is valuable in selling the position.
Pissed-Off Fanbase: 1, Politically-Correct Liberal Sissies: 0
by BCS Busted on Jan 3, 2012 2:15 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
And he doesn't want to know who the owner of SB Nation is then
LOL. Poor guy might blow out an aortic aneurysm.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
I actually just found out
Apparently, SB Nation is equally important to him as the political side.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
Good news!
If there’s one thing this whole thing taught me it’s that, should we ever lose “Utes”, they better not leave it up to the fan base at large to decide on a new mascot. We’ll end up The University of Utah Red-tailed Black Cottonwood Stingin’ Stags, or some such.
Sorry no....
Too many memories of the fanbase in Laramie singing that like they meant it.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women. Especially BYU. - Conan the Barbarian (ok, maybe he didn't say the BYU part)
Why do they play that at RES?!!!
Can’t recall whether they did this year or not, but I cringed every time they would.
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
I swear they played it as recently as last year.
Dolphins and sharks are natural enemies. Dolphins are like, "Quit eating us," and sharks are like, "Stop smiling all the time, you morons."
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
Nope
I can’t be sure if it’s been played their since ‘05, but I know it hasn’t been played since ’08.
Yeah, let's a few intellectuals make the call.
I think they’ve got Hoodoo in their hip pocket.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Jan 3, 2012 8:28 PM MST up reply actions
We really need a "that flew right over your head" emoticon...
I was also poking fun at myself as a member of this particular fan base at large, but… whooosh! right over your head.
by -FeloniousMonk on Jan 3, 2012 9:36 PM MST up reply actions
Whoosh
You give yourself too much credit if you think I took YOU seriously. I was making fun of you einstein
by Utah-UCLA alum on Jan 4, 2012 7:11 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Jesus, it's like talking to an eight year old...
which means you fit in well with most other UCLA fans.
by -FeloniousMonk on Jan 4, 2012 8:07 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I can see you are really a grownup and sit at the big boy table. Impressive.
by Utah-UCLA alum on Jan 4, 2012 11:16 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I hope fan reaction was part of this decision. Losing the drum and feather is one thing but losing the UTES would SUCK!!!
It's just a symbol
Will Utah be less of a school without it? Will Utah lose more games without it? No. Southern universities used to show the Confederate flag, now not so much, considering black athletes have allowed Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Texas, and others to win championships year in and out.
Symbols are not important. I love Utah, because it gave me the basic science education that let me get into a top notch medical and graduate school, and then on to a great career in business. I don’t care if the Swedish Chef was the school’s mascot. As matter of fact, that would make me laugh my fucking ass off.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
by LeftCoastMan on Jan 3, 2012 2:50 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It's a symbol, but also an identity...
Which means, it would suck when it initially happened and then, a few years after the fact, we’ll be over it.
I’m sure, initially, Stanford fans were furious over them dropping the Indians as their name and the American Indian logo for a tree. But they got over it.
Similarly, when Utah dropped the Redskins around the same time and became the Utes, I’m guessing some fans were upset – but over time, the disgust changed and people embraced the new names.
Still, it is an identity and tied to many of our memories. I’d get over it…but it would take a while.
My standards are quite low
I have a dumb fucking orange as a mascot for my grad school.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
By the way
When I was at Syracuse, our “Indian” mascot was the Saltine Warrior based on an urban legend that Syracuse University was built on an Onondaga Indian burial site (completely untrue). In 1978, Syracuse was one of the first universities to drop native american mascots, and we just didn’t care, because it was the 70’s, and we were sick and tired of racism of all sorts.
The school took 5 years to come up with a replacement mascot. They test marketed them in the Carrier Dome. We were brutal on them. One was Dome Eddy, who was, at best, creepy. They settled on the fucking orange. Very lame.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
I don't believe it...
Something more creepy than this?
But you’re right – lame. That’s my big concern. We’ll get something lame if it ever comes to that.
Like a lame TREE???
I think this beats a flaming orange.
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word" - Andrew Jackson
I think the tree is intentionally snarky
They don’t pretend that it’s a wolverine or anything. It’s Stanford, whose band plays loudly at post-game ceremonies during bowl game losses so no one can hear the opposing player who won the MVP award. And it’s Stanford, almost all of whom are going to be millionaire Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs who look down on all of us anyways, proudly laughing that their tree makes fun of all other mascots.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
Personally, I dig both The Orange and The Tree.
They’re both great examples of what makes collegiate athletics so wonderful, and so much better than “pro” sports.
by -FeloniousMonk on Jan 3, 2012 9:39 PM MST up reply actions
this is definitely up there on the creepy scale
by khaostheory117 on Jan 3, 2012 4:26 PM MST up reply actions
Banana Slug???? Or a yellow Mutant Ninja Turtle?
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
One more thing Jazzy....
We might have a lame-ass mascot, but I believe when I look at the NCAA Division I basketball rankings, I see a certain university with a lame ass Orange mascot in the #1 spot for the last 4 weeks. Just saying.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
Utah was the "Utes" long before we dropped the Redskins nickname
In 1972, the university stopped using the Redskins nickname, but the Utes nickname had been around for decades. Ute Stadium was built in 1927. I’ve found newspaper articles from the 1910’s that referred to the team as the Utes. Until 1972, articles and media guides referred to the team as Utes or Redskins interchangeable — sometimes in the same article or paragraph.
I know...
But they were still referred to as the Redskins – even if along side ‘Utes’.
But it was still a very prominent name for the program and actually adorned the cover of the media guide for years – when it was called the Redskin Review.
‘Utes’ first made the cover of the media guide in ’72, after the name was officially dropped.
I’m sure, initially, Stanford fans were furious over them dropping the Indians as their name and the American Indian logo for a tree. But they got over it.
Kind of, but a lot of Stanford fans also understood the reasoning for the change (the Indian was a really offensive caricature of Native Americans in a lot of publications and merchandising). If anything, Stanford students were more upset the school didn’t take up the nickname of “Robber Barons,” like they had voted overwhelmingly for.
As it is, Stanford has no official mascot, only the color Cardinal (think of Harvard Crimson). The Tree is the band’s mascot, only after they too trotted out several different mascots at football games in the ’70s for fans to associate with.
** Rule of Tree ** Pounding the Rock ** Battle of Cali ** Fear the Fin ** Athletics Nation ** Niners Nation **
Surely you aren't equating...
the U’s logo to the confederate battle flag; a banner carried into battles where 100’s of thousands died to keep a political system in place that permitted the enslavement of their fellow man?
We’ll let the Cordon Bleu use the Sweedish Chef for their athletic department thank you.
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word" - Andrew Jackson
Obviously you missed my point
I’m going to respect Jazzy’s wishes that we don’t devolve into a political discussion, though Markos would enjoy it. :)
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
You're right
Symbols don’t matter… the american flag, the cross, the swastika, the star of David. They’re not important.
The fact that Utah fans will happily pay a twenty dollar premium on a piece of clothing because it has the drum and feather on it, that’s because they’re stupid, not because the symbol has any value assigned to it.
Logo & Name
I think the move to the PAC-12 got the marketing and alumni groups all sorts of stupid. Suddenly they want to make changes to everything the fan base is used to. Maybe they should use their best marketing skills and actually poll paying customers and students and treat them like the consumers/customers they are. I’m sure they could find a university crack org to do an authoratative study
Rethink that
On January 1, I was watching Sportscenter, and they were talking about how the Pac-12 was doing in Bowl Games. Utah got mentioned dozens of times. The Pac-12’s marketing muscle is way beyond anything Utah has ever experienced.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
I'm disappointed
I wanted to see Jazzy’s new logo for this website. :)
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
You could have sued them for trademark violations
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
Excited to hear the news....
Heres to many more years of explaining to other fanbases what a Ute is
by notblue19 on Jan 3, 2012 3:17 PM MST via mobile reply actions
And that's why we need to keep the logo.
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word" - Andrew Jackson
I freaked out and bought 200$ of D&F gear before it was gone!! I wonder how many people did that? Oh well I least I got all the shit I’ve been wanting for years now.
I am a Utah Man sir... I will be till I die.
Good news...
but I fear this is going to be a constant issue until it’s taken away. I think it’s just a matter of being proactive and doing away with it now, or waiting until it’s forced upon the school.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Yeah, it is sounding more and more like an eventuality.
I realize this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I say if you’re going to change it, let’s rip the band-aid off quick and move on. If people are going to stop being fans because you change your logo and go from Utes to Hawks, Red-Tails, Hoodoos, or what-have-yous then they probably weren’t very loyal fans to begin with.
Sure there will be bluster from the more vocal members of the fan base which we’ve seen here the last week or two, but most will eventually get over it. I know I’d still going to be a fan, even if we went with cut-throats, which is a terrible mascot people. Can you just see some dude in a fish costume running around Rice-Eccles? That’s almost as lame as Stanfords tree, which is one of the worst ever. But as the southerners say: “Irregardless, ima be a fan tull I dah.”
by NC Ute on Jan 5, 2012 9:05 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I tend to agree on all counts...
which really bites because “Utes” is perfect: not only does it sound great, and fit the state and university, it is also totally unique. It’s another one of those “collegiate-sounding” names that just hits all the right notes. Hell, even if there was never a Ute tribe, it would still work. I’m sure most casual outside observers, who know nothing about the Ute tribe, just assume “Ute” is just something Utahns call themselves. Like “Hoosiers” or “Jayhawks”.
All that being said, if it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen. The best thing we (and the university) can do about it is think outside of the box to find a suitable replacement that captures as many of the same aforementioned qualities as possible. In the end, I just don’t want to end up with a meaningless, throwaway mascot and logo that have more in common with the XFL or NBA than it does with college sports.
by -FeloniousMonk on Jan 5, 2012 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
My favorite alternate helmet design
There were a lot of suggestions of new helmet looks that came out of this frenzy, this is my favorite by far, but as the creator said, probably the least likely of all…
Oregon's Rose Bowl Helmets a bit cooler
Although if we could get that design, with the nice reflective effect of those Oregon helmets, it’d be awesome.
Pretty cool
But seeing as we were discussing dropping the drum and feather because of its racial undertones…
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 9, 2012 7:33 AM MST up reply actions
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