The "way too early" 2012 Pac12 Tiers
I saw a couple people mention the tiers in another thread, so while I had some post-holiday free time I thought I’d do a quick scan & prediction for the upcoming season.
I kind of slacked off there at the end of the season...although with as low as I had Colorado, Utah probably finished the regular season in Tier 4, but with the bowl win, got back to Tier 3...I suppose I could chalk it up to my “rivalry” exception…but that would be a cop out.
…anyway, quick reminder of the “tier” definitions.
Tier 0 — Elite team. This team doesn’t lose a game, might have a "scare" from a Tier 2 team at worst…national championship material.
Tier 1 — Great teams. These are the teams who finish with 11 wins, go to a BCS game…finish in the top 10.
Tier 2 — Good teams. These are the teams who finish with 8-10 wins, finish ranked in the top 25 or just outside at worst.
Tier 3 — Above average teams. These are the teams that finish with 6-7 wins. Some will make a bowl game & possibly make it to 8 wins, but won’t be ranked.
Tier 4 — Average teams. These are the teams who will win 3-5 games.
Tier 5 — Below average teams. These are the teams who win 1-2 games. (Keep in mind that if they were in the MWC…these teams would likely finish with 4-7 wins)
Tier 6 -- Poor teams. A team that finishes with 0 wins in the Pac-12...(would finish with around 2-3 wins in the MWC)
Tier 7 -- Terrible teams. A team who finishes with 0-1 win in a non-AQ conference.
-
During "The Grind", a team from a tier up to two below your team's tier could beat you. That would be credited to "The Grind" (CLICK HERE to read more about "The Grind"). So a Tier 1 team might lose to a Tier 3 team…but never to a Tier 4 or 5.
A Tier 3 team might beat anyone or lose to anyone from Tier 1 to Tier 5…creating that "Middle" in the Pac-12 that is so hard to predict. Even a Tier 2, ranked in the top 25, team has the potential to lose to an average team.
…and with rivalry games, all bets are off. That is the nature of a rivalry.
My thoughts for this year...and this being predictive, not a power ranking...
Tier 0 -
USC - definite shot at the NC. OOC isn't too tough, but is strong enough that if they do go undefeated they should be lined up to play whatever SEC team that the corrupt BCS puts in there (assuming it's not just 2 SEC schools again).
Tier 1 -
Oregon - I only see them losing twice to USC (once in the Pac12 Championship)...mostly because of their horrendous OOC scheduling...not that I, as a Utah fan, have much room to talk...not sure if 10-2 with that OOC gets a BCS bid, so Alamo Bowl is my prediction. If they win their bowl game, that should put them at the back end of the top 10.
Tier 2 –
Utah - This might seem a bit bold, but an easy OOC should set them up for a possible ranked showdown with USC (I expect a win vs. ASU with the loss of Osweiller). The only "guaranteed" loss I see is USC, although I would chalk @ Washington into the L column. @UCLA concerns me, as does Wazzu. I think Utah finishes conference play @ no worse than 8-4...but my prediction is 10-2, and the Holiday Bowl representative, with an outside shot at an "at large" BCS game if they beat Washington & go 11-1. Ranking should be in the 10-20th range, depending on if they W/L their bowl game, with an upshot of top 5 if they make & win a BCS game.
Stanford - Losses to USC, Oregon, maybe ND...possibly another conference loss in there (Washington, Wazzu, Cal)...they seem fringy top 25. I could easily see them falling into tier 3, and being replaced by Washington or even possibly Wazzu. Sun Bowl, an easy victory & a top 20-25 ranking for the team that does finish here.
Tier 3 -
Washington - Tough schedule. Losses to LSU, USC, Oregon...maybe Stanford and/or Cal, and/or Utah. I could see them as a ranked 4 loss team if they win their bowl game next year.
Washington St. – Very interested to see what the Mad Pirate does with this team. Missing USC is huge. Also plays an OOC that should get them to 3-0 (Leach will eat Roscoe’s lunch). Losses to Oregon, Washington, maybe Cal and/or Utah.
Tier 4 –
UCLA – I really like the hiring of Jim Mora Jr…I just wish he had some good on camera rants like his old man. I think 2-1 in OOC, and they have some great misses in conference (Oregon, Washington). I’m predicting losses to USC, Stanford, and 2 out of 3 vs. Utah, Wazzu, Cal.
Cal – Another team with a tough OOC schedule, and they miss the easier teams in the South. I see losses to Ohio St., USC, Oregon, Utah maybe Stanford and/or Washington, and or UCLA.
Tier 5 -
ASU – Moderate OOC, but the loss of Osweiller puts them at 1-2 in OOC.
Colorado – Oh, my hated, hated rival. A weak OOC should set up for a 3-0 season start. I project a 2 wins somewhere in conference for a 5-7 finish.
Tier 6 -
Oregon St. – I think they go 1-2 in OOC, with losses to Wisc & BYU. I don’t see in conference getting much better, even though they do miss USC. 1-2 in-conference wins and the termination of Mike Riley.
Arizona – I think Rich Rod is a terrible coach. We’ll see if he proves me wrong. OOC looks like 2-1, but in conference I think there might be 1-2 wins max. Expect them to be the doormat of the league next year.
Tier 7 –
None
...thoughts?
50 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
You and your tiers!
Not sure if I’d put Utah that high just yet.
I’d put ‘em at tier three until we know what’s going on with the QB situation (whether Wynn can make it through an entire season unscathed).
A few minor disagreements...
I’d have the Utes down at tier 3 by your standards.
I’d knock a few other schools down a notch as well. WSU is a tier 4 school for me right now. I’d also put UCLA in tier 5 and CU in tier 6.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I like the predictions, but...
as the others noted I think Utah is a tad too high, but not sure I think they are a tier 3 either. So maybe a tier 2.5? Like Jazzy pointed out I think we have to wait on the QB situation, but its no different than most teams; its just way to early to tell yet. Anyways, good predictions overall.
I'm with everyone else
If you think @Washington is a loss, and Washington is 3… Utah should be 3 also.
No one else thinks we can beat USC, huh? Did we forget how close this year’s game was?
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 6, 2012 9:02 PM MST reply actions
I think we can beat him as long as Wynn is healthy
by khaostheory117 on Jan 6, 2012 9:28 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah I think we can beat them.
Especially considering it is at RES. On any given saturday….
I think we really have the best possible chance to beat them
We get three in state games to warm up the season. The starting qb won’t be down for the year that early. We’ll hopefully know what kind of a team we have by then. We get a week and a half prep for the game. USC started a bit slow and really got hot. I think we’ve got at least a chance
by motes on Jan 6, 2012 11:33 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
USC will be a top 5 team.
Could Utah beat USC? If everything goes right, I suppose. Yes the Utes played SC close last year, but Utah was over matched. They were just scrappy and had heart.
The whole game looked like Utah without Wynn, against Arizona State or Colorado. They could have won those games too, but fell short. Without Wynn, USC destroys Utah.
by UteinBrooklyn on Jan 9, 2012 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
USC being a top 5 team is pure speculation.
could it happen? sure. but will it happen? i’m not ready to declare it yet. a string of injuries or a few key recruits falling short of expectations and it could go downhill for USC with the scholly restrictions.
by khaostheory117 on Jan 9, 2012 5:24 PM MST up reply actions
USC finishes this season ranked 6th
So starting the season ranked 5th not out of the realm of possibility.
However with the scholly reductions, you are right, there depth won’t be as strong, meaning their room for error is small. Honestly, USC may have been under sanctions for the past two years, but since the scholly reductions aren’t even going into effect until next season, they aren’t even going to truly see the effects of their sanctions until probably 2013, or 2014.
oh i don't doubt that they'll start the season ranked in the top 5
but as we all know a ranking doesn’t mean jack shit until you earn it. I’m the kind of guy who tries to say lets wait and see no matter how likely something seems.
by khaostheory117 on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
With Barkley coming back
I’d take 20-1 odds that they are a top 5 team.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 10, 2012 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
Jazzy et al...
I think you are all missing that this isn’t a power ranking, it’s predictive.
USC lost to ASU, but wouldn’t you say that USC should be ranked higher than ASU? Note my definition of the 2nd Tier…
Tier 2 — Good teams. These are the teams who finish with 8-10 wins, finish ranked in the top 25 or just outside at worst.
If I think Utah is an 8-10 win team…that fits pretty well within my definition…
…and if I think Utah finishes 10-2, you all should be getting on me for not placing them in Tier 1…because that’s where they’d be if they finish the season 11-2, according to my “Tier” system.
If Utah wins 10 games and their bowl, they’re going to be fringe top 10, and I think that’s completely realistic. I just wish we had a more difficult OOC, because that’s going to make us look bad as the 2012 season wears on.
-
…as for U-Dub…they seem like the Tier 2.5 to me. I see them with anywhere from 7-9 wins. I think if they had Utah’s schedule, they’d be an 8-10 win team as well…but because of the extra loss, I dropped them into the 3rd Tier.
-
…if anything, I think I’ve rated Stanford too high. I could see them falling all the way past Wazzu into the bottom of the 3rd Tier.
I think the conference as a whole slips a little next year. The south will be bad again.
-CAL is ranked too low. They have a solid defense, get all of their play makers back on offense, return to their home stadium, and have a top 10 incoming recruiting class coming on board.
-Stanford will slip into the muddled middle. They are losing 3 first round draft picks on offense and too much overall.
-CO is too high and OSU too low.
Will be very interesting to see how the new coaches adjust in their first year. Seems like ASU, AZ, and UCLA will all be down as they take some personnel hits. Washington St. could be much better. They have a lot of starters returning and maybe the best WR and QB combos outside of USC.
My reasoning here...
Cal only has about 3 gimme wins, has 6-7 tough games…and I think that translates to a season that really is 8-4 at best…but more realistically 7-5 to 6-6.
-
Colorado has 3 guaranteed OOC wins. If they got 2 conference wins this year, why couldn’t they do the same again next year? I think they’re fringe Tier 4…
-
Oregon St. has a brutal OOC (Wisconsin, @BYU…not that I want to give BYU that kind of credit, but they always play better at home). Their QB situation is unsettled, they didn’t show any Fr/So. types stepping up to be the next game-changer. I don’t see them doing well in conference.
Utes and depth
I might bump Utah down a notch until we know what is going on at QB and the defense responds to key losses. Utah is returning the 2nd most starters in the conference after USC, but we all learned about the value of quality depth. Protecting the QB is of vital importance and we lose two all-conference tackles.
On D, half of the DL depth will be depleted though 3 starters return. The loss of two starting LBs shouldn’t be underestimated either. Unlike CB and DL which rely mostly on technique and talent, LBs need to make critical reads in real time. That isn’t always easy for sophomores with little game experience. Is there depth overall?
Blechen will move back to LB, so that fills one of the two holes...
…and I think him and Reilly will cover up enough ground to allow a bit of a learning curve for whomever the 3rd LB ends up being.
…but I agree with you on the DL. The loss of Shelby is tough, but even more unheralded is Finau, who was a huge lift during the season.
The other thing you didn’t talk about in terms of losses is our OL, who for as much as we hated his boneheaded plays, Cullen will be missed…and of course Bergstrom.
Still, I really like the quality of the returning guys. WR depth is ridiculous, we all know how good White is, but I think with another year of learning and 15-20 more pounds of muscle, Langi will become a bruiser compliment to Juan Blanco. Wynn just needs to be healthy…and this team will make some serious noise.
I never worry about losses to the defense
Unless we’re losing a first round NFL talent, I trust Whittingham and Sataki to have found and developed the players needed to reload. They haven’t let me down in that regard yet.
Offensively, I have concerns about the line, particularly JWIV’s ability to produce without Cullen and Bergstrom.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 9, 2012 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
I think Finau finds an NFL spot.
He wasn’t a starter but has raw talent that could be developed. I was reading the Atlanta Journal Constitution after the Sun Bowl and one of GT’s OL said that Lotulelei and Finau were the two best tackles they had faced this year “by far.” To put that into perspective, that includes games against Georgia, Clemson, Miami, VT, and North Carolina.
We all love Shelby, but don’t know that he has the speed for the next level.
by UteinBrooklyn on Jan 9, 2012 3:03 PM MST up reply actions
And I think you have to look at personel losses.
Even superpowers like USC, Miami, and Florida State slip off. Utah has a great system but they are still horrible against the pass and have had lapses against the run for a half or two.
I agree that I am not as worried about the defense, but I don’t know if that is simply foolish optimism based on past results like thinking we were in store for another 10-win season coming into the PAC12.
by UteinBrooklyn on Jan 9, 2012 3:06 PM MST up reply actions
Passing defense is horrible?
1st in the Pac-12 in Passing Efficiency.
25th in the Nation in Passing Efficiency
37th in nation in yards/att
and 46 in scoring?
That’s not a horrible defense, especially considering how long they were on the field, and they play in a pass happy conference.
Yeah
Our defense has been among the best in the country for years now, and it doesn’t seem to much matter who is starting or who they are lining up against. I won’t worry about our defensive personnel until I see that they are inadequate.
Keep in mind, Ram’s passing numbers were in the Pac-12. With the QBs we faced, that’s some damned fine pass D.
Also, Rowe was just named freshman all-american.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 9, 2012 5:10 PM MST up reply actions
Wrong word choice and...
I didn’t see pass efficiency was so high and that is probably a better gauge than passing defense which only looks at yardage. I only saw that Utah was 74 in passing defense.
Utah gave up nearly three times as many TDs through the air as they did on the ground. Imagine what they could do if they improved it just a little bit.
by UteinBrooklyn on Jan 9, 2012 11:36 PM MST up reply actions
Two thoughts on the TD's.
Yes they gave up three times as many through the air but remember, they were still in the top 50 of scoring. They played in a very very very pass happy conference, and it was easier to throw for a score than run for a score against our defense.
That doesn’t mean our pass defense was bad. Our run defense was just that good.
And yes Yardage only is honestly a terrible way to judge defenses IMO.
Also don't forget
That our inept offense, hurt our defense quite a bit this year.
Especially
A ball-hawking defense like ours. We give up 2 extra yards to get an interception try all the time.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 10, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions
To further underscore the Conference angle
Pac-12 finished the season with 329 touchdown passes, 40 more than any other conference.
Ted Miller mostly agrees with me...
…at least for who should be on top next year…
http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/33011/early-2012-power-rankings
Yeah
Nice to see. It didn’t take long to get respect from Ted Miller, anyway.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 10, 2012 8:51 PM MST up reply actions
Ted Miller has been very fair.
He admitted early on he wasn’t too knowledgeable about the Utes, but respected their history. Never got too high on the Utes when the hype was there, but was still sound the bell of how dangerous the Utes are when we were 0-4 in conference.
Yeah, he certainly is a step up from Andrea Adelson...no offense to her...
…I’m sure she had a lot of teams to cover.
Darron Thomas Revision...
I think with Thomas declaring for the draft, Oregon moves into Tier 2, and probably below Utah. I could see at least 2 losses and possibly ranging toward 4…which would put them in Tier 3.
I still think they’re a top 25 team, but they seem fringy to me, a-la Stanford.
I wonder
Where he will get drafted. With Tebow’s success, he might be able to make some noise.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 16, 2012 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
No love for the three-time outright conference champs?
I like how you’re dogging on Oregon when the Utes haven’t even played the Chip Kelly version yet. That’s fine though, keep underrating us. We’ll see you in two seasons.
We won the conference with Masoli (who could barely throw), we went to the Natty with Darron as a redshirt sophomore first-year starter, then we won the conference and the Rose Bowl with Darron basically refusing to run. Either Bryan Bennett or Marcus Mariota next year will be a better fit for the offense than Darron or Masoli were, along with having better athletes around them on both sides of the ball.
Stanford doesn’t have the speed to stick with us and Cal just lost two of their top assistants, so I’m not as worried about them. USC is really the only team that should be able to stick with us next year.
Personally, I agree that Oregon is better without Thomas.
Also point of fact, Utah has actually played the Chip Kelly version of the Ducks. They played them very tight, in Autzen in 2009 (Kelly’s first year).
With Terrence Cain, no less.
At least part of the time. We can take them quackers.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 18, 2012 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
Someone's a bit sensitive...
I wasn’t aware that calling a team who lost their starting QB and RB a fringe top 25 team was an insult.
…and as pointed out, we have played the “Chip Kelly version”…and it was less than overwhelming.
I’m glad you’re confident that your system is so plug and play that you’ll never miss a beat…but most teams don’t stay in the top 10 every year…so believing that Oregon takes a step back after losing their starting QB & RB isn’t that far fetched.
Make sure to show up and take your medicine when it turns out you’re not as unbeatable as you think…because I’m sure you’ll be trolling the boards if you’re not.
Except that Oregon Showed at points last year
They’d be okay without LaMichael and Thomas
Kenyon Barner, and D’AT picked right up when LaMichael was out.
When Thomas went down in the ASU game I think it was, his backup came in, and not only performed adequately, but actually performed better.
Yeah, I like Barner too...
…and I’m sure they’ll have people who step in and keep them at a high level…
…but I really didn’t downgrade them that much anyway. In essence, I was saying I thought they would be 11-1 in the regular season, lose the championship game, and finish the season 12-2/11-3…
…so is a downgrade to a 10 win season really that much?
Honestly, Yes
In Oregon’s case it’s the difference between the Rose/Fiesta Bowl, and the Alamo Bowl.
I guess the question is...who becomes the Pac-12 at large...
…if USC runs the table?
…and if USC doesn’t end up in the NC, is the Pac-12 a 2 bid conference?
…although with Boise & TCU leaving the non-AQ ranks, that does free up another at large (I can’t see anyone in the remaining non-AQ threatening to bust the BCS).
Well Oregon is still the favorite.
But if Oregon went 10-3, and that third loss came in the Conf Champ game, I can’t see them getting it.
but what about BYU
The cougars just need to schedule 3 more high school teams a year.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Jan 23, 2012 8:12 AM MST up reply actions
What will Utah's PAC-12 record be for next year?
What do you think it will be? I’m guessing Utah will finish 3rd or 4th in the PAC-12 South.
by Bisquick_in_da_MGM on Jan 19, 2012 2:15 PM MST reply actions
If Utah finishes 3rd/4th in the South...
…that would be a pretty disappointing season, and probably mean Utah went 4-5 in conference…
Let’s examine:
USC – Runaway favorite
UCLA – New HC, but returning starting QB. Underwhelming 2011 but could be a surprise in the South.
ASU – New HC, lose QB. Many aren’t sold on Todd Graham…he certainly didn’t make many adjustments to beat a reeling Utah squad @ Pitt in 2011.
Arizona – New HC, lose QB. Pundits seem to be impressed with RichRod’s ability to bring in coordinators, but there is still a major lack of talent on that squad.
Colorado – Easily the worst team in the Pac-12 (which makes the Utah loss all the more embarrassing).
-
So with the above in mind, it’s pretty hard to imagine Utah as anything but a strong candidate for 2nd in the South…and anything less means we’ve regressed from the 2010 season…
…which doesn’t make much sense, as every skill position is returning, as is a large majority of the D.
-
My “bold” prediction for Utah is 10-2, but I could see it ranging from 11-1 to 8-4. The schedule sets up very favorably, with some of the toughest games Utah has to face at home.
In conference, I think Utah will likely go 7-2, with the lucky draw of getting to miss Oregon & Stanford again.

by 







