Is the ending of the BYU-Utah rivalry nigh?
by JazzyUte on Feb 14, 2012 11:29 PM MST
in Holy War
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PrintEver since Utah joined the Pac-12 and BYU charted its own path through independence, we've heard buzz about the potential of the rivalry game between both schools dying down.
Well, it just might happen.
This was posted over at Utefans the other day and while it's not definitive proof the rivalry is about to go the way of the Dodo bird, it's a scenario that seems pretty plausible.
So, if we're about to see the last breaths of this rivalry game, are you okay with that?
I don't think I am.
I like playing BYU. I think these two teams have a unique rivalry and I would hate to see 90 years of history erased over night. I'm positive, even if the vocal opinion online suggests otherwise, that most in the state would hate to see this rivalry die.
This isn't a rivalry between two states or even two regions of a state. I guess it would be easier to let go if our fan bases didn't overlap quite like they do here in Utah. Salt Lake City is roughly only 40 miles from Provo and because of that, we're far more connected than say Michigan fans and Ohio State fans.
There is no imaginary border dividing our fans. Our rivals live in our neighborhoods, attend our churches and go to our schools.
I remember back in high school, when I attended Highland here in Salt Lake City, how big the rivalry really was because, as much as I hated it, there were Cougar fans in my classes. You made wagers, you talked smack and, that Monday after the game, you either gloated or sulked.
Those are special moments. I have a lifetime of good memories with this rivalry.
I talked about one of those memories last year.
But there are so many more.
Like when, in 2003, I received tickets to the Utah-BYU game down in Provo and decided against going because I wanted to watch the game with my dying grandmother in her hospital room. My grandma was a huge Utah fan and we often watched the rivalry games I couldn't attend in person.
That November, I knew she didn't have much longer to live. It was a painful reality because I had grown up living with my grandmother for a good portion of my life. She, along with my grandfather, influenced me more than anyone outside my parents.
So, the decision wasn't really difficult. I was adamant we'd watch that game together - and we did!
I remember how relaxed and happy Grandma was watching that game. When the Utes won, and claimed an outright conference title for the first time in fifty years, she beamed. It was nirvana. For a few hours, we forgot that this was probably going to be Gram's last Holy War.
The Tuesday after that game, she passed. But that memory has remained with me all these years and it never fails to make me smile.
I have so many good memories associated with the rivalry between these two teams that I would hate to let that feeling go because of spite or even hate.
There is just too much magic linked with the Rice Bowl, Yergensen's Kick, BCS Busters, BCS Busters II, Burton's Block and 54-10 that I don't want to see it end.
Look, maybe we'll form new rivalries with new teams and the Holy War will become just another game on the schedule. But let it happen organically. If the rivalry is destined to die, let it die on its own - don't kill it. I think we would all be able to accept it more if it ended that way, through total apathy, then if, after this upcoming season, both schools decided to never schedule one another again.
But as someone who's grown up during the greatest era of this rivalry, where almost every game it seems is decided by a score or less, I say keep at it. This is unique. It's tradition. It's as part of our state's fabric as Jell-O, minivans and the Jazz.
Let's not abandon it.
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You owe Utefans.net an appearance.
I find it odd that you refuse to make any more appearances on Utefans.net, yet you’re using the website to come up with this story. You owe Utefans.net an appearance. You need to participate in discussions there if you’re going to use its material. You’re probably pissing off Webmonkey, he’s very sensitive.
by The Moose's Whistle on Feb 14, 2012 11:37 PM MST reply actions
You owe Jazzy not appearing.
I find it odd that you keep getting thrown out of message boards and yet you continue to make comments that add absolutely nothing.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Feb 14, 2012 11:45 PM MST up reply actions
Who cares?
Jazzy is a journalist (especially now as I understand he’s getting paid). He’s allowed to look around, get the buzz of the community, and then report on it. He’s also allowed to report on other news and give his take on it. He doesn’t need permission from Webmonkey, whoever that is.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Feb 15, 2012 9:48 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
moose is the ultimate troll
whether its on twitter, or on Block U or hoyosrevenge or wahtever, moose loves to troll
If you like my comments, please visit my blog @ nationofsportsdomination.blogspot.com
by BigBenSportsGuy on Feb 15, 2012 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
I don't want to abandon the rivalry, but I wouldn't mind if it took a hiatus.
In fact, if we play BYU and USU every other year, instead of playing both every year, that seems like a great compromise to me.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
That adds absolutely nothing.
That’s a pretty dull and boring idea. If we only play USU every other year, then it won’t really seem like a rivalry anyway. USU we have reason to play every year. BYU not so much, they’re a private institution. We should play them when they wish to play in SLC and we have a free week.
by The Moose's Whistle on Feb 14, 2012 11:52 PM MST up reply actions
If that's going to happen, they need to commit to it...
But I don’t like the idea of a hiatus. I fear once the rivalry goes into hiatus, we’ll never bring it back…or we’ll do what Penn State-Pitt do now: play only a few times in a 20 year span.
Rivalries don't take a hiatus.
Can you imagine urban telling his new team, “uh, I think we need a hiatus with the team up north”?
I'm an out of state student at the U
I moved here from the East Coast, watching schools like Rutgers, Syracuse and Penn State, and never really heard about Utah until 2007… as far as BYU went, I didn’t even know they existed. I honestly didn’t even know there was a mormon university. Crazy, I know.
…but the point is, my perspective on this rivalry is far different than those of you who grew up with it, or have been rooting for the Utes for decades.
Anyway, if we fast-forward to today, after my first Holy War as a Ute, my conclusion about BYU is that they’re a bunch of self-righteous, arrogant (with absolutely NO reason to be!) man-children. I loved whipping them. It was sweet. In fact, watching that game was accompanied by better feelings than any other game I’d ever seen before (since exceeded by our Sun Bowl).
But that said, what CU did to us in the finale pissed me off more than anything BYU could have possibly done. I ripped my hair out when our kick @ usc got blocked. You get the picture; I’m a PAC-12 Ute. It’s what I was first immersed in and it will probably always be my perspective.
As much as I want to respect the history and sustain the tradition, I think we almost need to move on. We have bigger fish (buffaloes) to fry.
The Intimidator
I respect that...
But I completely disagree. CU doesn’t even register on my radar. Yeah, the loss last season sucked, but it was no more frustrating than the Washington, Arizona State or Cal debacles. Sure, it cost us more, but in the end, it was indicative of the whole season.
My point? It’ll take a good decade of losses like that to reach the level of ‘pissed’ that I’ve experienced after BYU games.
In ’06, I left RES after losing to BYU on a last-second play, far more devastated and emotionally wrecked than I did last year after Colorado.
It doesn’t help that the Buffaloes just aren’t good. Sure, they beat us and I respect that, but they were still a 10-loss team. BYU has been, and probably will continue to be for a few years, a far better team than what they’re producing in Boulder.
Like I said, if the rivalry is meant to die, it’ll die. But don’t force it on the off chance we might be able to spark something new with Colorado. I don’t have any hatred of Colorado. I don’t even consider them a rival and I’m guessing the feeling is mutual. Until that feeling occurs, it’s hard, for me anyway, to just swap BYU out for the Buffs.
"Like I said, if the rivalry is meant to die, it’ll die. But don’t force it..."
Who says this is forcing it? Maybe this is a sign it’s meant to die and it’s happening “organically”. I don’t think so though. It’ll be a temporary thing. 9 conference games, 1 Big Ten/BCS team game, 1 tune-up game, 1 in-state rival game; considering the upcoming USU contract, there isn’t much room to maneuver there in the short term. After that, BYU will be back on. No worries.
Personally, however, I still like the BYU/USU every-other-year idea. There was a time when USU was the bigger rival, and it could happen again. Time and tide, man, time and tide. Says that wise sage, Cougar Mellencamp, “If you’re not part of the future, then get outta the way.” ;)
by -FeloniousMonk on Feb 15, 2012 2:44 AM MST up reply actions
It's not a sign, though...
Because I think, by a large number, in fact, both fans want it to continue, even uninterrupted.
The only way it dies organically is if, over time, people lose interest in it. But I can tell you, based on traffic alone to my blog, interest in the BYU-Utah game is remarkably high.
You want to discuss a rivalry that died organically? Look at USU. We didn’t stop scheduling them. However, at a certain point, they became awful, we became mediocre, we started dominating them, they continued playing awful, we got good, they continued sucking, we got really good and then, eventually, we ended a string of consecutive games.
For traditions sake, it was sad seeing the USU game disappear from the schedule in ‘10 and ’11 – but, in terms of total interest, it just wasn’t there. Okay, that’s a lie – there was some interest. But not near the level of our grandparents’ generation.
That’s what I mean by organic. Let the rivalry fade out the same way the USU one did – by BYU slumping to the point where a win is an almost-guarantee. But right now, both teams are competitive enough, exciting enough, that the idea of a hiatus might force the end of the rivalry instead of letting it run its course.
I get you, and I'd rather it not end, but there's a flip side to this...
Maybe they’re forcing the rivalry to remain in existence for the sake of fan popularity. I only care about two things when it comes to the Ute’s schedule: being entertained and that the schedule is the best possible for Utah. I don’t, however, give a rat’s anus for BYU or their fans. With a nine game conference slate, maybe playing BYU isn’t the best possible thing for Utah right now. Playing them satisfies the entertainment part, but probably not the other bit.
by -FeloniousMonk on Feb 15, 2012 10:49 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed to disagree, definitely.
I think we’ll have two separate camps holding each of our beliefs, and I think they’re both valid. I’m sure the “keep the rivalry” side will far outnumber the PAC-12 side, and I’m fine with that.
But I do want to discuss my definition of a rivalry.
For me, it’s not who produces a good team, but rather, who comes in and whips us on our own turf. Look at the CU game and the BYU game this year, for example. Which team wanted it more, BYU or CU? Which game meant more, BYU or CU? ….now, by the numbers, which team was better, BYU or CU?
CU, CU, BYU.
Maybe us Utes aren’t ready to adopt CU as our rival again after the 50 year hiatus, but if you ask me, the folks in Boulder were back into it the day we both joined the PAC-12. And I think that’s great. Don’t get me wrong, I want to beat them by 50 every year…but, I look forward to what looks to be an incredible, re-emerging rivalry.
Let me pose another question: would you rather have beaten CU 54-10 and lost to BYU 17-14? I know I would’ve.
And one last note: Washington, ASU and Cal were ugly losses, and I anticipate those rivalries will build over time, but I don’t think we played very hard during those games. That’s more of an indictment of struggling to acclimate to the PAC-12 in the first half of the season, which is something that everyone fully expected. Additionally, those losses sucked, but the entire season came down to the CU game, and things were in our hands and they came in here and beat us. Montana State doesn’t do that. BYU doesn’t do that. A rival does that.
If we can stay on the upswing, I think the PAC-12 rivalries are going to be more intense than anything we’ve ever had… I really can’t wait to see how things develop between us and USC, in particular…. but CU is the “main rival” for the foreseeable future, IMO.
The Intimidator
by Earnhardt on Feb 15, 2012 11:33 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Buffs, in any league, will never be bigger fish.
Losing to CU is like losing to Wyoming, UNM or UNLV (as far as traditional schedules go).
Disagreed.
As I mentioned above, I’m a relatively new Ute, so I don’t really have any knowledge on our program’s history, but did Wyo, UNM or UNLV ever come into RES and knock us out of the the MWC championship (which, by no means is equivalent to the PAC-12 championship game, but for the sake of the argument, let’s say it is)?
You don’t have to agree with me, but that lowly team coming in here and defiling a dream first season for us AND THEN talking an endless river of crap… well… that’s a “new” rival to me.
The Intimidator
Once upon a time
I do believe New Mexico ruined a perfect season for us in the 90’s.
by Oregon Ute on Feb 15, 2012 11:35 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
1994!
Oh how I hate 1994. Lose to New Mexico and Air Force in back to back weeks to cost us both a WAC title AND a perfect season. Still, at the time I was an Aggie fan, and you don’t want to know how they did that year (3-8, if anyone cares, one year removed from a 7-5 Big West championship season in 1993, which included a Vegas Bowl bid).
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Feb 15, 2012 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
The Lobos were our misery for so long...
Even though I never really considered them a rival. More of an annoyance. Like the clap.
’94, ’00, ’02, ’03, ’05, ’06 – all awful, awful losses.
If I were a Ute (fan) back then, I most certainly would have considered UNM a rival...
I don’t know how you couldn’t if such were the case.
The fact that we’re in the major leagues now is all the more reason to start a CU rivalry. That and they’re a bunch of granola-munching, pot-smoking, arrogant airheads that think they have better skiing.
As an atheist, the whole BYU “holier than thou” thing never got under my skin… “greener than thou” just may.
I hate everything about that state to the East.
The Intimidator
The reason UNM was an annoyance and not a rival
Is because Rivalry is more than just wins and losses. It’s the same reason despite CU winning last year, they still aren’t close to being our rival.
Actually, don't discount Earnhardt's opinion/feelings of hatred...
This is how rivalries begin. The next generation may have a very different take on just who is Utah’s biggest rival. That’s the nature of things, it’s how it works. Time and tide, man, time and tide.
by -FeloniousMonk on Feb 15, 2012 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
Not sure if you saw what I said above...
But I’m a first-year out-of-state (NJ) student at the U.
As I was telling Jazzy before, the PAC-12 Utes are the only Utes I know and care about. Obviously, I respect the history and traditions of our program, but to me, BYU is just another private school now.
Unless they join the PAC-12, any games with them really have no value.
Objectively, you guys would be more excited to play BYU than USC? Or to get revenge on CU? Come on, now…
The conditions are set for the rivalry with BYU to die and the rivalry with CU to begin. We can hold onto the BYU rivalry and set up a bunch of trap games (for any ranking we may have) and we can continue to ignore and underestimate a team that ruined what could have been a historic season for our program…. or we can let the past go and move on to the future.
The Intimidator
Colorado didn't spoil a dream season for us
Would you say UCLA had a dream season last year? Backing into the Pac-12 championship game after a mediocre season would have been an amazingly improbable turn of events, but I wouldn’t have called it a dream season by any stretch. The Colorado loss totally sucked and ruined my weekend, but it didn’t drastically change my feelings about last season as a whole.
Yes.
I don’t want to say we would’ve beaten Oregon, but I do think that our defense would have been the best they faced last year, and when their offense sputters, they fall flat.
Again, I don’t think we would have beaten Oregon… I’d say 20%… but we would’ve put up a hell of a fight—way better than UCLA did—and save USC, we’re the team that deserved the PAC-12 South title.
No one picked us to win the South, and to do so would’ve been incredible. If you’re indifferent to winning the division, I honestly question your fanhood.
The Intimidator
I never said I was indifferent to winning the division
I’m saying that Colorado didn’t spoil our season anymore than USC, Wash, ASU, or Cal did and nobody’s announcing them as our new rival. I’m saying last year was not a special Utah team, it was not a special season, and beating Colorado alone wouldn’t have changed that by my definition. Now if you want to play the what if game and talk about beating Oregon or winning a Rose Bowl, that would be a totally different story. Of course it would have been fun to see what happened. But it’s not like that was a special Utah team on the path to greatness until Colorado spoiled everything.
No, but it could have been a special team.
Look at the Utes season; were they special? No.
What if they beat CU and won the South? Yeah.
What if they beat CU, then went up to Eugene and beat the Ducks? Absolutely.
You take things on a game-by-game basis. You’re right… the what-if game is pointless, but 1 win kept us from a special season. 2 kept us from a dream come true.
And just for the record, I want to clarify why I said what I did lol…
You said “The Colorado loss totally sucked and ruined my weekend, but it didn’t drastically change my feelings about last season as a whole.”
I just don’t get that! You’re saying that your feelings on our season would not have been changed had we beaten CU and won the South??? Even if we got whipped by UO, I can’t express how thrilled I would have been to win the South in the inaugural PAC-12 year.
The Intimidator
So you're saying UCLA had a "special season" last year
I’m saying they didn’t. I wouldn’t trade Utah’s season with UCLA’s – all things considered. There’s a reason Utah is almost universally considered as having a more successful campaign and finished higher in the power rankings even though UCLA ended up representing the South Division in the championship game. Question my fanhood if you must. I see your point; I just don’t agree with it.
by UU COE Alum on Feb 15, 2012 11:29 PM MST up reply actions
It's not about switching with UCLA lol
It’s about beating CU and winning the South outright in our first year of one of the best divisions in the country, and the best that this university has been associated with in its 150 years of existence.
The fans are what make the rivalry, so if you choose not to adopt CU as your rival, then that’s fine… but I think as fans, we should be harping more about games that matter.
I would rather beat ANY PAC-12 team than BYU. Period. Any one of them.
We have a fundamental difference in beliefs here, so I’ll just boil everything on my side down to this: The Utes have moved on, so the fans and media should too. The old adage is that if you live in the past, you die in the past. I can’t think of anything more appropriate to say. Belittle CU, OSU and UCLA all you want. Beating them will bring this team and this university further than beating BYU ever did, does or will do.
The Intimidator
I brought up UCLA
Because your argument is that Colorado spoiled Utah’s “special season” by keeping them out of the Pac-12 Championship Game. By that logic you must believe UCLA had a special season.
By my definition, a “special season” would mean Utah was as least the best team in their own division and one of the top 3 teams in the conference. Last year they were neither of those things. Beating Colorado alone wouldn’t have changed that.
Since you’re new to the state and new to The U, just accept right now that you will never fully understand or appreciate the rivalry with byu, which is fine. You can’t and it’s not your fault. You will have games that are more important to you as a fan and that’s totally understandable.
I will never fully understand BYU.
I have conceded as much on more than one occasion in this very thread; the BYU culture is not something I was raised in, nor is it something I’m really interested in (especially being an atheist).
It has everything to do with my reference frame of “always” being in the PAC-12.
From admissions telling me left and right on great it is for the school, to the banners around campus, to the engravings on all of the glass doors, to ESPN, etc, etc.
We’re of a different breed!
All of that said, I do think UCLA had a special season for winning the South, and I WOULD have switched with them, it’s not what I said. We were a better football team than they were—I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. My inflection was that we would’ve beaten CU and won the South outright (which is miles more impressive than splitting it with UCLA and ASU), and then, I think we would’ve given UO a better fight than anyone else could have.
Would I have switched wins and losses with UCLA? Absolutely. Would I trade teams and players? No.
I think I misinterpreted what you were saying before…
The Intimidator
You're right.
With all due respect, you may never understand BYU just like I would never understand OSU/Michigan if I set foot on either campus today. If it dies, you won’t ever get it. If it stays alive, you MIGHT understand it. The fact that it will never again be the last game of the year in and of itself has a big effect on the game’s atmosphere. That’s the thing about tradition. It’s only a big deal to people who have been a part of it. In fact it’s the definition of tradition: the passing of customs and beliefs from one generation to the next.
That said, the loss to CU didn’t make me hate CU. I was pissed that we laid an egg, not that CU showed up with some heart. Do I want revenge? Do I want the Utes to pummel them in ’12 and beyond. Absolutely.
You’re now a 1st generation Ute fan. Only time can help you understand, and I hope for you that in 10 years you look back on this conversation and say, “Wow. I hate BYU. I can’t believe I thought that way.” That means the tradition is still alive, and that would be a good thing IMO.
Agreed...I look at the Colorado loss similarly to the UNLV loss...
I didn’t instantly hate the Rebels after that game. I was angry Utah lost. I wanted to kick their butts the very next year, but I don’t think we became rivals that day.
Now, that’s not to say a rivalry with Colorado can’t manifest itself over the next few years. It’s possible we have bitter, hard fought games where we’re battling one another for a spot in the Pac-12 title game – but right now, the history (recent history) just isn’t there to elicit a passion.
The one thing that makes the Holy War work is that we live in the same communities. I have yet to come across a Buffalo fan in the real world. That disconnect, I believe, does play a role.
I'll reiterate my feelings from last year.
Utah’s loss to TCU in 2010 was honestly more costly than the loss to CU last year. Utah was closer to the Rose Bowl in 2010 than they ever were last year at the beginning of the CU Game.
The TCU loss was much more devastating than the CU loss. Being revealed as a fraud by TCU hurt more than not becoming a fraud because CU beat us.
Gaping wound
That loss changed how we looked at the entire 2010 team. It changed how we looked at Roderick as an OC.
It effects how we look at Wynn.
The loss to Colorado sucked. But I think Jazzy comparing it to UNLV is apt. Nothing more. And for a good comparison as terrible and humiliating as the UNLV loss was in 2007, the BYU loss that year hurt even more. And that is what makes a rivalry.
As an Utah and Syracuse grad
I don’t give a shit about playing TDS in football.
And I don’t’ give a shit about playing Georgetown in basketball.
I’m glad that Utah is in the Pac-12 and can pull out their massive 12 inch dick and wave it in the face of those douchebags at BYU.
And I’m so happy that Syracuse is leaving the Big Piece of Shit for the ACC. And Rutgers kind of sucks all around.
I feel better.
Utah can have rivalries with USC or Arizona or ASU (ignoring UCLA and Colorado for the time being). Those will be exciting. BYU is a third rate academic institution and is unworthy of our interest. Fuck them.
This is the best news that Jazzy has posted since we joined the Pac-12, and I found this blog because I couldn’t get enough information.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
by LeftCoastMan on Feb 15, 2012 10:41 PM MST up reply actions
LeftCoastMan
You both agreed with me and made fun of Rutgers in the same post. (I’m from NJ originally—hate Slutgers)
I’ve gained a great deal of respect for you, my good man.
The Intimidator
Totally agree..Don't let the rivalry die!
College football is about tradition. It takes decades to build those traditions, but the sad thing is they die after only a few years. It would be a HUGE mistake to stop playing this rivalry game! Who cares about USU? I want to beat the Cougars every single year!
One vote for hiatus
I believe the rivalry has exceeded the boundaries of a healthy sports relationship. I have a sister I rarely see because she married into a BYU family. The amount of hate this game can evoke is rediculous.
I’d like it to keep going, just dialed down a tad.
What I’d really like to see is the BCS system to morph into a world where independence cannot work and force them into a lesser degree of college football. The game could continue but they would be relegated to an FCS league wondering what might have been had they been more willing to work with the conferences that came calling.
by Drum and Feathers on Feb 15, 2012 7:36 AM MST via mobile reply actions
boundaries?
Poisoning historic trees is crossing boundaries, yet I don’t hear anyone in AL calling for a rivalry hiatus.
Auburn-Alabama is a conference game.
If BYU were still a conference game we wouldn’t talk about this because it would be a foregone conclusion. It’s not anymore. Now we have to decide if the rivalry is worth the spot on the schedule, especially now that we only have 1 free spot (USU gets one based on legislative threats, according to legend, and the other one goes to a BIG 10 team starting soon). If we ever want to play a Texas team, or an ACC team, or anyone other than our conference, the Big 10, and USU, we’ll have to give up the BYU game to do it.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Feb 15, 2012 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
As y'alls favorite SEC guy let me say this.
It is true that it took an act of the Alabama Legislature to make Auburn and Alabama start playing again. And, they were still in the same conference during those 40 years. So, it’s not out of the realm of possibiltiy that they will make you play one of the two. South Carolina may pass a law to make Clemson and USC play each other and they are in two different conferences. One the other hand, you have Louisiana. LSU has to play all the other Lousiana schools. I think you would do better with a rotation.
by Bisquick_in_da_MGM on Feb 15, 2012 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
Plus Consider Georgia-Georgia Tech
Hated each other since before WWI. Have had hiatuses based on different conference membership and stretches where there were nearly unforgivable insults traded (UGA and GaTech each claimed the other’s students were shirkers in WWI and so didn’t play much of the 20’s).
And yet even in different conferences today, they mange to end the year with their rivalry game. So anything is possible if you want to keep to going, including taking a couple of years off.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women. Especially BYU. - Conan the Barbarian (ok, maybe he didn't say the BYU part)
I have a different take from recent comments.
I’m more confident after Holmoe’s comments that the rivalry isn’t going away than I have been since we became a member of the Pac-12.
Holmoe commented that both sides have dates “penciled in”, but that both sides don’t see the benefit of a long term schedule.
This makes sense. The landscape of College Football is far from settled. The ground is still moving. BYU doesn’t want to lock themselves into another long term contract (Don’t forget they have long terms set up with Boise, Hawaii, and Notre Dame), that would require a buyout when they end up in the Big XII in 2-3 years.
Not only that but Super Conferences are still on their way. So with only three games available for Utah you can see why they really wouldn’t want to go out more than 2 years at a time.
At the same time, Holmoe’s comments were the first time I’ve heard anything about having specific dates in mind.
My take is this. Sometime after the start of the season, and before the end of next season we will hear an announcement of a home and home contract to continue the Holy War. Heck they may even be waiting until rivalry week to make the announcement. But it will only be a two year contract.
Then we won’t hear anything about a new set of games until that two year contract is over. It will probably be a two year contract again.
I think we're being too hasty. We should discuss this in 5 years.
I can see why BYU and Cougar fans might be less interested in the rivalry at this point. They may be slipping out ahead of the guillotine, as Utah recruiting has taken a big step up, and the Utah athletics budget is about to do the same. Over the last decade or so, we’ve either had close games or Utah blowouts… they may be seeing more blowouts and less close games on the horizon.
I suppose the same holds true for Ute fans as well; we feel as though our program has taken the jump to the next level, and BYU hasn’t. We want to schedule a different kind of opponent and have a different kind of rivalry, the kind that effects national championship stakes.
I just think we’re being awfully hasty about this ‘next level’ thing. The Cougars are still a heck of a football team, and Bronco is somewhere between an above average and very good coach (Ugh, can’t believe I said that… going to have to scrape my tongue with a razor blade now). Let’s give this rivalry some time to see if ti settles into a USU-Utah dynamic, or if BYU finds a way to increase their budget and national exposure so that they can keep up with us. If you believe what they’ve been saying about their 2014 schedule… they might.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Feb 15, 2012 9:54 AM MST reply actions
Actually it's their 2013 schedule that most Zoob's hype
And so far, it is actually good potential.
Texas, Boise State, GT at home
Road games at Hawaii, Utah State, Houston, Notre Dame and Washington State
Utah would actually be a home game in the rotation for them if/when it happens.
Couple of Notes I believe Boise Will reload better than most think, especially by 2013. After all they reloaded pretty well after ’07. They may not be at the levels they were the last 4 year with Moore, but I think Peterson is a good coach/recruiter, and Boise will still be good.
Houston I think will end up as a stinker by 2013. Keenum is gone, as is Sumlin. I expect a major downfall.
2014 for comparison currently consists of @Texas, Houston, @GT, Hawaii, @Boise, SMU, @UCF, USU. Utah would be a road game for them.
Not happy about it
Like BYU or not, the Holy War is part of our tradition. I keep hearing people saying that no one outside of Utah cares about the rivalry. Who cares? Does anyone think Utah-Colorado will get people across the U.S. canceling Black Friday shopping with the family?
The fact is that it matters here and it has mattered for a while. Like it or not, BYU is part of out tradition. Some of the programs best moments are from the rivalry. With the exception of last year and our BCS runs, every game for he last 20 years has been a coin flip. It is a damn good game to watch if you are true football fan.
And I think the Big Ten thing is a cop out. Do you think USC is going to drop ND from their schedule? Perhaps the rhetoric needs to be toned down a bit, but I think it’s a shame to discontinue the Holy War. It is our tradition. Who cares what others think about it?
Other rivalries
I promise no one outside of the PAC 12 cares about the Apple Cup or Civil War. No one cares about ASU and Arizona on the East Coast. USC-UCLA? HA since when has that been competitive?
My point is that outside of very few games like Michigan-OSU, Texas-Oklahoma, FSU-Miami, every rivalry is regional. The Holy War is THE best rivalry in this region and will become more well know because of Utah’s PAC-12 affiliation and improved product. Games that matter more now aren’t necessarily rivalry games but games between highly ranked opponents. So if BYU and Utah are ranked in the top 25, the game will make a national splash.
I’m disappointed that we won’t be continuing the tradition. It’s been a part of every autumn since I was a child.
Amen
My family is split right down the middle, some even have degrees at both schools. The Holy War has been date circled on the calendar as far back as I can remember. It’d be a shame for that to go away.
I'm torn
My family’s split too. I love the rivalry, love to trash-talk after a Ute victory. As a kid growing up, I didn’t know either team played any other game besides the Holy War. At the moment, I think I could handle a hiatus as long as the game before the break ends up being a beat-down on BYU like 54-10 this year.
… But then I realize that IF there were ever a season without BYU on the schedule, football season just wouldn’t be the same.
by StarcraftLovinUte on Feb 15, 2012 7:27 PM MST up reply actions
Do you still play SC?
I haven’t played in awhile, but I’d be down for a game sometime!
So my post adds substance: I think that playing in an AQ division with the big boys will make us soon forget the Holy War. In the MWC days, wherein the grand prize were in-state bragging rights, sure, beating BYU meant something…but now? Beating ASU, UA, UCLA, USC and CU will reap far greater rewards.
The Intimidator
I agree
USC is much more interesting to me than BYU ever will. I guess part of the reason is that I’m not from Utah (OK, I went to High School in the Ogden area, but I haven’t lived in Utah in 30 years). I’m a Californian by birth and current residence, so Utah playing USC and UCLA is infinitely more interesting to me than BYU ever will. I just think BYU is some low level religious school where Jim McMahon caused a bunch of trouble.
Since I’m an academic of sorts, I like the fact that both of my colleges are top-ranked academic schools (along with one giving me good football and the other #1 ranked basketball). BYU is nothing to me.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
by LeftCoastMan on Feb 15, 2012 10:47 PM MST up reply actions
Conflicted
Is it wrong that I just don’t have any interest in the holy war anymore? I mean, I am interested as long as the game is played, but if it disappeared, I wouldn’t lose sleep about it. I think a lot of fans have a love-to-hate relationship with BYU, but I honestly can say that I just don’t care about them. Yeah, they’re self righteous douches, but so are Boise State fans (BYU fans being the more prick-ish, of course). The point is that if we could develop a rivalry with a team like USC that’s even somewhat close to the holy war, I would take that in a heart beat over BYU! Now I realize that those things take a long time, and USC already has UCLA, but the argument’s power still stands.
by Oregon Ute on Feb 15, 2012 11:56 AM MST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Conflicted
Is it wrong that I just don’t have any interest in the holy war anymore? I mean, I am interested as long as the game is played, but if it disappeared, I wouldn’t lose sleep about it. I think a lot of fans have a love-to-hate relationship with BYU, but I honestly can say that I just don’t care about them. Yeah, they’re self righteous douches, but so are Boise State fans (BYU fans being the more prick-ish, of course). The point is that if we could develop a rivalry with a team like USC that’s even somewhat close to the holy war, I would take that in a heart beat over BYU! Now I realize that those things take a long time, and USC already has UCLA, but the argument’s power still stands. However, if most us still want the rivalry to continue, then let it continue. I just don’t have much zeal for it unless we were in the same conference.
by Oregon Ute on Feb 15, 2012 11:59 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Whoops
Sorry for the double post. Stupid phone.
by Oregon Ute on Feb 15, 2012 12:00 PM MST via mobile reply actions
HUGE mistake
if we let the Holy War slip off the football schedule. It was recently ranked one of the Top 5 rivalries in the NATION by some national sports writer (can’t remember who). Giving that up is a huge loss of tradition, which is the lifeblood of college football. I know Ute fans want to show up the Cougs and act like we are too big for them now, but let’s be real – the rivalry is a whole lot of fun and we should have many years of whipping the Zoobs into submission, why give that up?
Couldn't agree more
I am stoked for the PAC12 schedule and creating new rivalries, but letting the Holy War slip would be a monumental mistake.
90 Years?
I thought you were a true journalist now, Jazzy? How dare you claim to be a Utah fan and not acknowledge the rivalry started in 1896, not 1922! ;)
If anyone found my snowboarding gloves after storming the field following the 2004 TDS game, I want them back!
It doesn't work that way
I’m surprised how many people think we could simply create a new rivalry with another school (Colorado, USC, or anyone else). If it were that easy, everybody would do it. Will a Pac-12 team become our bitter rival? Maybe one day, but we won’t know that for a long time and it will never reach the epic levels of the Utah-BYU rivalry. There are just too many factors that make this rivalry great, which cannot be duplicated with any other school.
This rivalry is completely unique
There is no other sports game that has ETERNAL implications. Immortal souls hang in the balance, in the eyes of many.
Just to be clear, I am not one of those many.
by Joseph Silverzweig on Feb 15, 2012 4:15 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
The rivalry game should stay
For the same reasons mentioned by Jazzy and others; there is no joy for me quite like the joy of watching my Utes thump the cougars.
Watching Utah crush a Big-10 school 54-10 last year would have been great, but not nearly as satisfying as watching them destroy byu and then getting to live and work amongst byu fans for the next 365 days.
It won’t be the end of the world if it goes away, but no game that replaces it would carry the same weight or be as fun for me as a fan.
Big mistake to let go of the rivalry
I couldn’t agree more that it would be a big mistake to let go of the rivalry. I’m surprised looking on Utefans.net and some here that are in favor of letting it go. As a fan, why would you want to let go of a game as intense as that one? It has never made sense in my mind.
Hardly a 90 year tradition
It is an exaggeration to call it a 90 year tradition. In the early sixties the BYU game was early in the season and really no big deal. The real rivalry in those days was Utah State. Held most years at the end of the season (except 1965 when we finished the season with UCLA), it was what we Utes looked forward to. And we usually lost – the Aggies had great teams then. The BYU rivalry really started later. We all survived the passing of the Utah State rivalry and we will survive this too.
Like I mentioned above...the USU rivalry died completely differently from what is being suggested.
It didn’t die because, one day, both Utah and the Aggies decided they weren’t going to schedule each other. It died because, over time, USU became so awful in football that even bad Utah football teams were easily beating them. That led to apathy and, over time, that killed the rivalry.
I have no doubt that we’d get over the BYU-Utah rivalry IF it ended similarly. But right now, the Cougars are far better, far more established and far bigger of a name than the Aggies were for most of the rivalry.
If that’s how the rivalry ends, through apathy, I get it and whatever. But right now, I can guarantee you most fans are anything but apathetic to this rivalry.
BYU is a no-win situation as long as they remain independent/non-BCS...
Even though their SoS will improve in the next few years, it still remains so weak on the back end that it can’t really boost our OOC profile.
…couple that with the fact that they’ll likely be better than their SoS will profile as, and that they’ll play with more intensity because of the in-state rivalry…
It just doesn’t make sense if our goal is improving our national profile.
True, I’m sad to see it go. I would love to put together a few decades of dominance, but even going 8-2 in a 10 year period would end up being worse than scheduling a strong BCS opponent that would result in a 5-5 outcome, or even a weak BCS opponent that results in a 7-3 outcome during that decade.
If we’re going to play a non-BCS school with a weak profile, make it someone we can tune-up on…and while it pains me to admit it…BYU is just too dangerous to risk an OOC slot to, when we only have 3 OOC games.
The fight must go on.
This rivalry has to continue. Dump USU.
Best news of the night
I’m lighting up a cigar and downing a couple of single malt scotches. I know that the Zoobs will be saying “Utah is scared to play us”, but the reality is that Utah has more important games to play.
Go Cuse. Go Utes. Go Kings (hockey version). Go Panthers (hockey version). Go Marlins. Go Dodgers. I despise the NFL and NBA, so don't bore me.
Touche'
K, I’m an admitted “Purple” fan with a clear “Y” bias… But COME ON! BYU finished the season with a respectable amount of votes (even if we only beat middle-school men’s choir-level teams soundly…) but you have to admit that our record is better than either of the ones that Jazzy mentioned.
I would hate to see the rivalry die. Utes have many more options of whom to use as a measuring stick. USC? Cal? UW? Who knows. BYU has a 14-year deal with Boise, maybe they will be our new rivals… But I think that BYU and U of U are far better suited than any other candidate. School with similar records this decade (I’m talking season totals,) both sniffed by BCS conferences (Yes, PAC chose the U, but they talked to the Y too! So did Big East and Big Ten.) Both have a decent amount of national respect. Both were even Brigham Young’s doing!
Speaking for most of my fellow zoobies, most of them want to keep it going because they want revenge for the blatant “you naughy child!” spanking that you gave us this year, not that we finally chucked that QB out in a Heap.
Truth is BYU is better than half the Pac-12.
Before Georgia Tech BYU was our best win in 2011, and honestly it wasn’t even close.
People can talk about how we have bigger fish to fry in the Pac-12 because we’re playing CU, Zona, OSU, WSU, UCLA, ASU, but the truth is, all those teams suck, and suck worse than BYU does.
Look BYU’s 10 win season last year was an obvious fraud. They were not a good team, they were not the 25th best team in the nation last year. They were a slightly above average, but deeply flawed team. But they were the best regular season win of the Utes last year, and they were better than the group of crap that Utah got their conference victories from.
And better than the bottom half...
Of the b12, b10, and sec. If the option was between byu and say Kansas, minnesota or Kentucky, I would take byu any day, with or without a rivalry.
by hoyaute on Feb 16, 2012 12:40 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I'd put BYU on the same level as Minnesota
But I would take BYU over Minnesota solely cause of the rivalry. However definitely over Kansas/Kentucky.
Me too...
There are some Big Ten teams I just have no interest playing right now. Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois and Purdue are not bigger and better names than BYU currently. Maybe in five or six years, but certainly not today. We’ve already played Indiana recently (well, the last decade or so), so, it’s not an unusual opponent.
I would trade a few games with Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan and maybe even Michigan State (home and home with ‘em all) for the BYU game. But let’s be real, that’s not going to happen.
Likely, we’ll see a mix – where one year we play Wisconsin, the next Indiana, the next Minnesota and then maybe Northwestern.
Yawn.
If we give up the BYU game for that, I’ll be disappointed.
Thank you...
I disagree about the yawn and think that some of the Big 10 Pac 12 games could be interesting. But I thank youfor acknowledging that my gender confused squirrels (a.k.a. golden gophers) are in a rebuilding phase and will take a few years to rebuild their name.
And now off on a new tangent. The big thing that Kill (the new Minne coach) is doing to help Minnesota is the same thing that Whit needs to continue doing: not letting in state stars go off to the “power houses” like Wisconsin, OSU, etc… (Stanford, Oregon, and USC in Utah’s case). I’m betting you, by the time these Big 10 games roll around, Minne will have its name and its pride back, Utah will be staying strong and giving USC a run for its money in the south, and all of you would be excited for a game between the two.
Actually the agreement
Calls for all B1G teams to play all Pac teams Home and Home. Granted that means it would take 24 years to completely play out, and lord knows what could happen between now and then, but as it stands now, OSU, Wisconsin, Michigan, and MSU home and homes are all currently in the cards.
Has this been verified?
I thought I had heard the same thing, and sure hope you are right. I just spent a week in the Bay Area and those that I spoke to there were under the impression that it is a requirement that each Pac12 team schedule at least one BiG team each year starting in 2017, but the conferences aren’t going to dictate who plays when and where.
This means that CU and Nebraska can just get together and decide that they want to renew their yearly rivalry and play each other every year. Ohio St and Michigan may decide that they are too big to come to SLC or Pullman and just schedule one and dones, or maybe 2 for 1s.
I’m worried that the Utes might get stuck with what is left after the dust settles on a inter-conference scheduling free for all. It worries me like those “pick a partner” lab assignments in college. Please let there be someone either smart or hot available.
by Drum and Feathers on Feb 20, 2012 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
The way I have come to understand it is
that they want to possibly determine matchups by competitive standing i.e. 1 v 1
2 v 2
3 v 3
and so on and so forth and that every matchup will be a guaranteed home and home. so based on that line of thinking as long as utah can keep towards the top of the conference we should see some great matchups.
by khaostheory117 on Feb 20, 2012 7:55 PM MST up reply actions
If we stop playing them
We must end by bashing their heads in, figuratively.
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